Aircraft for sale

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RGB
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Aircraft for sale

Unread post by RGB » Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:43 am

Hi All

Mods I apologise if this is in the wrong forum but I just want to ask how come so few people post their adds here when they are looking to sell an aircraft. I have nothing against agents but I see so many new aircraft come onto the market via aircraft sales companies and all it does is push up the price. We put our King Air on the market for a little over 1.0 Million US$ and suddenly it was for sale everywhere for between 1.3 and 1.5 million. If anything it turned people away from inquiring. We opted to keep the aircraft and since then have been looking for a 6 seat piston aircraft either a Bonanza or C210 and not a single one is available directly from the owner but there are plenty available at way over market value and I can almost guarantee the only one loosing is the aircraft owner.

What is the benefit of going through an agent ...we never have and I just don't see the benefit,maybe I am missing something.

Regards
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Re: Aircraft for sale

Unread post by Fransw » Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:07 am

Interesting topic!

Mods, can we please move this to 'General..'

Muchas gracias! :D
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Re: Aircraft for sale

Unread post by Rotor kop » Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:26 am

Generally when people sell stuff on here they try sell it at double or even tripple its value. Seen it over and over. However there are some who really want to sell their items and price it fair. I have seen what you are describing happen many times with agents. In the end they kill any deal.
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Re: Aircraft for sale

Unread post by Fransw » Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:46 am

RGB wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:43 am
Hi All

Mods I apologise if this is in the wrong forum but I just want to ask how come so few people post their adds here when they are looking to sell an aircraft. I have nothing against agents but I see so many new aircraft come onto the market via aircraft sales companies and all it does is push up the price. We put our King Air on the market for a little over 1.0 Million US$ and suddenly it was for sale everywhere for between 1.3 and 1.5 million. If anything it turned people away from inquiring. We opted to keep the aircraft and since then have been looking for a 6 seat piston aircraft either a Bonanza or C210 and not a single one is available directly from the owner but there are plenty available at way over market value and I can almost guarantee the only one loosing is the aircraft owner.

What is the benefit of going through an agent ...we never have and I just don't see the benefit,maybe I am missing something.

Regards
So their markup is more than 30%!? They are killing the market with that!

I think the AMO is go to guy here not the brokers..
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Re: Aircraft for sale

Unread post by Marius Schrenk » Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:26 pm

RGB wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:43 am
Hi All

Mods I apologise if this is in the wrong forum but I just want to ask how come so few people post their adds here when they are looking to sell an aircraft. I have nothing against agents but I see so many new aircraft come onto the market via aircraft sales companies and all it does is push up the price. We put our King Air on the market for a little over 1.0 Million US$ and suddenly it was for sale everywhere for between 1.3 and 1.5 million. If anything it turned people away from inquiring. We opted to keep the aircraft and since then have been looking for a 6 seat piston aircraft either a Bonanza or C210 and not a single one is available directly from the owner but there are plenty available at way over market value and I can almost guarantee the only one loosing is the aircraft owner.

What is the benefit of going through an agent ...we never have and I just don't see the benefit,maybe I am missing something.

Regards
Lood here on avcom has a beautiful V Bonanza at a fair price. :idea:
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Re: Aircraft for sale

Unread post by hugo_visser » Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:48 pm

Same here with the selling of the Alouette III. Guys want R 200 000 to R 300 000 for doing nothing. I still show the Heli to the customer.

Hugo.
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Re: Aircraft for sale

Unread post by heinrich » Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:23 pm

RGB wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:43 am
Hi All

Mods I apologise if this is in the wrong forum but I just want to ask how come so few people post their adds here when they are looking to sell an aircraft. I have nothing against agents but I see so many new aircraft come onto the market via aircraft sales companies and all it does is push up the price. We put our King Air on the market for a little over 1.0 Million US$ and suddenly it was for sale everywhere for between 1.3 and 1.5 million. If anything it turned people away from inquiring. We opted to keep the aircraft and since then have been looking for a 6 seat piston aircraft either a Bonanza or C210 and not a single one is available directly from the owner but there are plenty available at way over market value and I can almost guarantee the only one loosing is the aircraft owner.

What is the benefit of going through an agent ...we never have and I just don't see the benefit,maybe I am missing something.

Regards
So if I understand you correctly, you put the King Air up for sale through an agent? Is commission not discussed during or before this process? That's a huge jump from $1m to $1.5m in asking price. :shock:
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Re: Aircraft for sale

Unread post by Lood » Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:48 pm

The most incredible part concerning the agents is that amongst them, they will advertise the same aircraft, all at a different price. #-o I've seen a price difference between agents of up to R300k, on the same aircraft!
If I do use an agent, I specifically ask what their commission is and then I tell them at which price they're going to advertise my aircraft for. Nothing less, nothing more and if they're not happy, I go somewhere else, or do it myself.
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Re: Aircraft for sale

Unread post by Marius Schrenk » Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:20 pm

I've been selling buffaloes for 19 years (my own) every year I advertise them all over where hunters and breeders would brows. Every year "agents" get into the act and sell them for much more than I ask. :? #-o even though I'm prepared to deliver and guarantee much more than the "agent".....the mind boggles. :twisted: Some people need to buy from a "agent"....its a mentality.....a GP mentality. #-o
Last edited by Marius Schrenk on Fri Oct 12, 2018 4:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Aircraft for sale

Unread post by Chalkie » Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:45 am

To me it is wrong for an agent to speculate with your asset. If you want an agent to sell your asset, then pay him a commission from the sale price.

If he wants to speculate, tell him to pay your asking price, then speculate with his own investment.
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Re: Aircraft for sale

Unread post by Fransw » Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:26 am

Chalkie wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:45 am
To me it is wrong for an agent to speculate with your asset. If you want an agent to sell your asset, then pay him a commission from the sale price.

If he wants to speculate, tell him to pay your asking price, then speculate with his own investment.
True! Especially your last sentence!

A good example is the aircraft the owner advertised for 4.5 bar here on Avcom a while back and I see in the latest SAF its for sale by a broker for 6.2bar excl vat! :shock:

But some of these ads are in for more than a year now! No movement..
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Re: Aircraft for sale

Unread post by Jel » Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:42 am

I'm not sure what the problem is... an agent, in selling anything, is working on your behalf and without agreeing upfront then surely they will market it for where they believe they can sell it. Agents have lists of buyers (sometimes and depending on who you use), they have networks of buyers and sellers and take a fee...

Its the same in property... agents will come to you, and recommend advertising at a price and if they sell then that's where the market is. Countless times I used a property agent who suggested a price and then marketed it... sometimes too high, sometimes realistic...

Everyone is quite entitled to try and sell it themselves or go through an agent... people with aircraft somehow seem to think that they are being "done in" in so many areas... again if you don't like it, sell it yourself :!:

If you use an agent then read the paperwork and sign a mandate which suits you, if you don't take the time to read it then tough... don't cry foul afterwards that you signed a mandate allowing them to make a huge chunk of money and you ONLY got the price you wanted... owners need to take some responsibility here... :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:
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Re: Aircraft for sale

Unread post by Fransw » Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:06 am

Jel wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:42 am
I'm not sure what the problem is... an agent, in selling anything, is working on your behalf and without agreeing upfront then surely they will market it for where they believe they can sell it. Agents have lists of buyers (sometimes and depending on who you use), they have networks of buyers and sellers and take a fee...

Its the same in property... agents will come to you, and recommend advertising at a price and if they sell then that's where the market is. Countless times I used a property agent who suggested a price and then marketed it... sometimes too high, sometimes realistic...

Everyone is quite entitled to try and sell it themselves or go through an agent... people with aircraft somehow seem to think that they are being "done in" in so many areas... again if you don't like it, sell it yourself :!:

If you use an agent then read the paperwork and sign a mandate which suits you, if you don't take the time to read it then tough... don't cry foul afterwards that you signed a mandate allowing them to make a huge chunk of money and you ONLY got the price you wanted... owners need to take some responsibility here... :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:
True words! There are good deals out there(buy&sell), if you are prepared to work a little. Otherwise use an agent and get a proper agreement in place..
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Re: Aircraft for sale

Unread post by SlowApproach » Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:15 am

I think a problem is not "hereby appointed" agents but those who might try to parasite off a selling situation by appointing THEMSELVES as agents without the seller's knowledge. There seems to be a lot of that going around in a number of areas, including even staff recruitment. (Try to advertise a position by yourself somewhere and it won't be long before self-appointed recruiters start advertising the position themselves, at an inflated salary nogal, and then have the bluddy temerity to approach you with a "suitable candidate" and wanting like a month's (some will even ask for three months) salary as commission for their "effort"...)
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Re: Aircraft for sale

Unread post by Jel » Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:29 pm

SlowApproach wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:15 am
I think a problem is not "hereby appointed" agents but those who might try to parasite off a selling situation by appointing THEMSELVES as agents without the seller's knowledge. There seems to be a lot of that going around in a number of areas, including even staff recruitment. (Try to advertise a position by yourself somewhere and it won't be long before self-appointed recruiters start advertising the position themselves, at an inflated salary nogal, and then have the bluddy temerity to approach you with a "suitable candidate" and wanting like a month's (some will even ask for three months) salary as commission for their "effort"...)
You are not under any obligation to employ in this instance either... they advertised and found a candidate, and without a signed mandate you don't have to agree to anything.

On paper admittedly; sales organisations are legitimate businesses who put buyers and sellers together... many of them employ people to search for aircraft and market them... if you, as a seller cannot market it sufficiently to get a response, then perhaps using a sales company with a proper mandate (detailing commission, price to be marketed for etc) will work for you, or you can go it alone and see if you can get the exposure that a sales organisation can get... really quite simple :!:

Its mind boggling how people with high value assets (aircraft) don't apply common sense or simple business practices to their aircraft and they do apply it in all other aspects where the values are not as high - motorvehicles for instance...

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