ARO Membership legal Requirements for NTCA Pilots

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Re: ARO Membership legal Requirements for NTCA Pilots

Unread post by pietmeyer » Tue Oct 01, 2019 2:17 pm

So from reading the above posts, I need to belong to say MISASA as an ARO but must you also then belong to Aeroclub? All this is very confusing :roll:
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Re: ARO Membership legal Requirements for NTCA Pilots

Unread post by Firedog » Wed Oct 02, 2019 11:54 am

pietmeyer wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 2:17 pm
So from reading the above posts, I need to belong to say MISASA as an ARO but must you also then belong to Aeroclub? All this is very confusing :roll:
Piet - een ARO is genoeg - hy moet net erken word! :D
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Re: ARO Membership legal Requirements for NTCA Pilots

Unread post by heisan » Wed Oct 02, 2019 12:37 pm

pietmeyer wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 2:17 pm
So from reading the above posts, I need to belong to say MISASA as an ARO but must you also then belong to Aeroclub? All this is very confusing :roll:
Most (if not all) AROs are Aeroclub sections - so you have to be an Aeroclub member to belong to the ARO. (I think there is one independent glider ARO?)
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Re: ARO Membership legal Requirements for NTCA Pilots

Unread post by bosvark » Wed Oct 02, 2019 3:31 pm

heisan wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 12:37 pm
pietmeyer wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 2:17 pm
So from reading the above posts, I need to belong to say MISASA as an ARO but must you also then belong to Aeroclub? All this is very confusing :roll:
Most (if not all) AROs are Aeroclub sections - so you have to be an Aeroclub member to belong to the ARO. (I think there is one independent glider ARO?)
That was the info I got when I started my VP build. Had to belong to Aeroclub to be able to make use of the AP scheme and also had to join another ARO.
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Re: ARO Membership legal Requirements for NTCA Pilots

Unread post by SliChop » Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:55 pm

I have somewhat impatiently read through the whole subject of the ARO Membership thing. As I understand the clarifications from a lot of people on this forum, it is only required as a pilot when he or she is flying an NTCA(Non Type Certified Aircraft) that falls under the LSA(Light Sport Aircraft) Class or if you partaking in display or airshow activities. Let us exclude the balloons and other Does this then exclude me as a PPL that flies a Sling 4 NTCA registered but not LSA as it MAUW is above 600kg? Im not partaking in any shows or displays!
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Re: ARO Membership legal Requirements for NTCA Pilots

Unread post by homebuilt » Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:46 pm

All very confusing. Can someone from the CAA not step in here and correct this conundrum so we can put it to bed once and for all please. I am sure we would all like to do right by the law and the CAA at the end of the day.
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Re: ARO Membership legal Requirements for NTCA Pilots

Unread post by heisan » Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:02 pm

SliChop wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:55 pm
I have somewhat impatiently read through the whole subject of the ARO Membership thing. As I understand the clarifications from a lot of people on this forum, it is only required as a pilot when he or she is flying an NTCA(Non Type Certified Aircraft) that falls under the LSA(Light Sport Aircraft) Class or if you partaking in display or airshow activities. Let us exclude the balloons and other Does this then exclude me as a PPL that flies a Sling 4 NTCA registered but not LSA as it MAUW is above 600kg? Im not partaking in any shows or displays!
I am not sure if that was the way it was intended, but that is the way the regulations are written.
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Re: ARO Membership legal Requirements for NTCA Pilots

Unread post by Dusty Eagle » Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:19 pm

SliChop: You wrote.... Does this then exclude me as a PPL that flies a Sling 4 NTCA registered but not LSA as it MAUW is above 600kg? Im not partaking in any shows or displays!

It falls under a VLA [ very light aircraft ] but what-ever its weight may be, its registered as a non type certified aircraft.
As Heisan said, that's the way the regs are written, so even if you are a NPL,PPL, comm pilot or ATP and flying an NTCA, the regs require you to be a member of the Aero Club and an ARO.

In applying for your NTCA's Authority to Fly, the CAA want proof of your Aeroclub membership. I submitted mine this week and the application didn't require proof of an ARO, but the Aeroclubs membership showed me being a paid up member of an ARO..

Hope that helps.
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Re: ARO Membership legal Requirements for NTCA Pilots

Unread post by heisan » Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:23 pm

Dusty Eagle wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:19 pm
SliChop: You wrote.... Does this then exclude me as a PPL that flies a Sling 4 NTCA registered but not LSA as it MAUW is above 600kg? Im not partaking in any shows or displays!

It falls under a VLA [ very light aircraft ] but what-ever its weight may be, its registered as a non type certified aircraft.
As Heisan said, that's the way the regs are written, so even if you are a NPL,PPL, comm pilot or ATP and flying an NTCA, the regs require you to be a member of the Aero Club and an ARO.

In applying for your NTCA's Authority to Fly, the CAA want proof of your Aeroclub membership. I submitted mine this week and the application didn't require proof of an ARO, but the Aeroclubs membership showed me being a paid up member of an ARO..

Hope that helps.
That is not quite what I said... VLA are specifically not included in the definition of 'aviation recreation', so no ARO membership is required.
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Re: ARO Membership legal Requirements for NTCA Pilots

Unread post by Dusty Eagle » Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:08 pm

Heisan: That is not quite what I said... VLA are specifically not included in the definition of 'aviation recreation', so no ARO membership is required.

Apologies if I misinterpreted your comment, then I must ask....If the VLA is an NTCA and not TCA, does the rule not apply regards the ARO.

I know my Safari was in the 700kg category, is an NTCA and [ I had to be ? ] a member of an ARO.

As an aside, I have never queried being a member of the Aeroclub and chapter 322, and Misasa before..... I have considered it a privilege considering the benefits I have enjoyed. It really is a small cost considering the value of a plane and what it costs to operate one.
However, I understand the thread is about what is, or isn't legally required.
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Re: ARO Membership legal Requirements for NTCA Pilots

Unread post by heisan » Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:59 am

Dusty Eagle wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:08 pm
Heisan: That is not quite what I said... VLA are specifically not included in the definition of 'aviation recreation', so no ARO membership is required.

Apologies if I misinterpreted your comment, then I must ask....If the VLA is an NTCA and not TCA, does the rule not apply regards the ARO.

I know my Safari was in the 700kg category, is an NTCA and [ I had to be ? ] a member of an ARO.

As an aside, I have never queried being a member of the Aeroclub and chapter 322, and Misasa before..... I have considered it a privilege considering the benefits I have enjoyed. It really is a small cost considering the value of a plane and what it costs to operate one.
However, I understand the thread is about what is, or isn't legally required.
I copied the regs here:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=222984#p2066790

ARO membership is required when an NTCA is used for 'aviation recreational purposes' only. Aviation recreation is defined as 'flying microlight, glider, balloon, gyroplane, hang-glider, paraglider, model aircraft, light sport aeroplane, touring motor glider, parachute or involvement in aviation events'. Since flying a VLA does not meet the definition of 'aviation recreation', ARO membership is not required.
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Re: ARO Membership legal Requirements for NTCA Pilots

Unread post by RichieRich » Mon Oct 14, 2019 11:41 am

Sunray wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 11:20 am
It may not be on the list for ATF applications but it is still in the regs. How will we explain that fact to the SAPS constable who does the ramp inspections at Pilanesberg? With great difficulty I'm certain. It looks like a dogs breakfast - FIYD, FIYDont. Who do you go to to get clarity and a letter confirming that Mr.XYZ does not require a Aeroclub membership? What would the insurers say about it should you suffer some unfortunate accident and you haven't been a member of an ARO and thereby might not be as safe as someone who is abiding by the regs and supposedly a safer flyer?



The issue around insurance could get interesting. A number of insurers have recently been forced by the courts to pay claims for car accidents where a car was involved which had an expired licence. The court found that the licence, whether expired or not, does not determine the road-worthiness of the car whether it was roadworthy or not. It seems insurers can no longer just assume they may refuse a claim based on whether certain "taxes" were paid or not!
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Re: ARO Membership legal Requirements for NTCA Pilots

Unread post by Orthin Opter » Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:51 pm

heisan wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:59 am
ARO membership is required when an NTCA is used for 'aviation recreational purposes' only. Aviation recreation is defined as 'flying microlight, glider, balloon, gyroplane, hang-glider, paraglider, model aircraft, light sport aeroplane, touring motor glider, parachute or involvement in aviation events'. Since flying a VLA does not meet the definition of 'aviation recreation', ARO membership is not required.
Neither does your list mention anything heavier than a LSA or TMG. So assume I have a HeviLoader Mk4 (as big as a RV10 but slower) so I do not need to be a member of a ARO because I only fly locally and never 'involved in aviation events.' Am I confused?
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The main vice of socialism is the even distribution of misery." Winston Churchill.
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Re: ARO Membership legal Requirements for NTCA Pilots

Unread post by heisan » Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:58 pm

Correct - the list I provided is the complete definition of aviation recreation. Only the listed activities require an ARO.
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