The Flightradar 24 interesting traffic thread

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Snitch
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Re: FlightRadar24

Unread post by Snitch » Wed Mar 11, 2015 5:49 pm

Segg wrote:
I've got 2 units in from Flight-Aware without an issue (The first was nailed by lightning in January) its shipped via FedEx and all customs are paid by the shipper
Just because you could import it doesnt mean its legal.
Do you have an ICASA licence for it ? If not then its illegal and they can prosecute you just like they did the guys caught with airband receivers for which no licence exists.

Sad but true
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Re: FlightRadar24

Unread post by FR24 » Thu Mar 12, 2015 3:58 pm

Snitch wrote:
FR24 wrote:Dear all,

my name is Olga Kalmykova and I represent Flightradar24.
We are about to increase our coverage in Africa and would like to offer you a cooperation, which means you could become one of the host of Flightradar24 equipment.
All the Flightradar24 equipment will be provided free of charge and shipped to you if we choose your application. And as a thank you, you will also get a free Flightradar24 Premium Account.

You can help us increase the coverage. Please apply! All the information and the application form you can find here: http://www.flightradar24.com/free-ads-b-equipment

You are welcome with questions and ideas!
Goodluck
In South Africa the equipment is illegal. :(
Probably the same in many other African countries.
Really hope you can get some in though.
Thank you very much! I also hope, that we can find somebody who would like to take part in the project. That's why I'm here.
If you know some other forums or social networks, it would be a great help, if you could post that FR24 is looking for volunteers and share the link http://www.flightradar24.com/free-ads-b-equipment
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Re: FlightRadar24

Unread post by Snitch » Thu Mar 12, 2015 9:39 pm

FR24 wrote:[

Thank you very much! I also hope, that we can find somebody who would like to take part in the project. That's why I'm here.
If you know some other forums or social networks, it would be a great help, if you could post that FR24 is looking for volunteers and share the link http://www.flightradar24.com/free-ads-b-equipment

Forwarding to as many people around Africa as possible :smt023
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Re: FlightRadar24

Unread post by Armone » Thu Mar 12, 2015 10:31 pm

confirmed for hosting equipment, already have my equipment on route to me :)
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Re: FlightRadar24

Unread post by FR24 » Fri Mar 13, 2015 4:23 pm

Snitch wrote: Forwarding to as many people around Africa as possible :smt023
Thank you very much! :D
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Re: FlightRadar24

Unread post by RenierS » Fri Mar 13, 2015 5:17 pm

Snitch wrote:
Segg wrote:
I've got 2 units in from Flight-Aware without an issue (The first was nailed by lightning in January) its shipped via FedEx and all customs are paid by the shipper
Just because you could import it doesnt mean its legal.
Do you have an ICASA licence for it ? If not then its illegal and they can prosecute you just like they did the guys caught with airband receivers for which no licence exists.

Sad but true

Then, should it not be illegal to log onto Flightradar24? What is the difference between receiving ADS-B signals, decoding it to pinpoint airplane locations and viewing it on Flightradar24?

Listening in on airband channels is indeed illegal if you do not have a licence, but I don't see how this applies to ADS-B signals. This information is already in the public domain.

My ADS-B receiver is part of my HAM radio setup at home.
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Re: FlightRadar24

Unread post by heisan » Fri Mar 13, 2015 5:59 pm

RenierS wrote:Listening in on airband channels is indeed illegal if you do not have a licence, but I don't see how this applies to ADS-B signals. This information is already in the public domain.

My ADS-B receiver is part of my HAM radio setup at home.
The information is not in the public domain. If you do not have a license for a band, you may not tune to it.

At some stage you must have studied the regs for your ham license, so you should know this.
(4) The radio apparatus used at an amateur radio station may/must not be
tuned to a frequency other than a frequency for amateur services referred to
in Annexure I in these regulations.
In fact, it is illegal (even for a ham license holder) to even own a receiver that can tune to 1090MHz (although ICASA is looking at revising this law).
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Re: FlightRadar24

Unread post by RenierS » Fri Mar 13, 2015 6:58 pm

The HAM radio licence is not a licence for an ADS-B station.

But, do you have a licence for receiving broadcast FM Radio? The B in ADS-B stands for "broadcast". And the information that is being broadcast is freely available on FR24, Radarbox and Flightaware. If this was not the case, then these sites would be illegal.

Interesting read on the ADS-B situation in New Zealand:
http://forum.flightradar24.com/threads/ ... nals-Legal
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Re: FlightRadar24

Unread post by heisan » Fri Mar 13, 2015 7:27 pm

RenierS wrote:The HAM radio licence is not a licence for an ADS-B station.

But, do you have a licence for receiving broadcast FM Radio? The B in ADS-B stands for "broadcast". And the information that is being broadcast is freely available on FR24, Radarbox and Flightaware. If this was not the case, then these sites would be illegal.

Interesting read on the ADS-B situation in New Zealand:
http://forum.flightradar24.com/threads/ ... nals-Legal
The NZ law is different from SA. Only specific consumer broadcast bands are permitted without a license (see the frequency spectrum plan on the ICASA web site). Aviation bands (including transponder frequencies) are most definitely not allowed. Just because a communications protocol has 'Broadcast' in its name, in no way implies that the frequency is a consumer broadcast frequency.

If you have a valid ham license you should know these things.
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Re: FlightRadar24

Unread post by Segg » Fri Mar 13, 2015 9:31 pm

Surely one can't track down something that doesn't emit a signal, or am I missing something from Physics 101?
what goes around, comes around.
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Re: FlightRadar24

Unread post by heisan » Fri Mar 13, 2015 9:37 pm

Segg wrote:Surely one can't track down something that doesn't emit a signal, or am I missing something from Physics 101?
It is not easy, but there are ways to do it. Not that ICASA would bother. Unless, for example, someone complained about the position of ZS-RSA being visible on the internet.

Also, probably not best to mention that you have this equipment on a public forum...
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Snitch
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Re: FlightRadar24

Unread post by Snitch » Fri Mar 13, 2015 9:43 pm

RenierS wrote:
Snitch wrote:
Segg wrote:
I've got 2 units in from Flight-Aware without an issue (The first was nailed by lightning in January) its shipped via FedEx and all customs are paid by the shipper
Just because you could import it doesnt mean its legal.
Do you have an ICASA licence for it ? If not then its illegal and they can prosecute you just like they did the guys caught with airband receivers for which no licence exists.

Sad but true

Then, should it not be illegal to log onto Flightradar24? What is the difference between receiving ADS-B signals, decoding it to pinpoint airplane locations and viewing it on Flightradar24?

Listening in on airband channels is indeed illegal if you do not have a licence, but I don't see how this applies to ADS-B signals. This information is already in the public domain.

My ADS-B receiver is part of my HAM radio setup at home.
Then what about the websites that relayed live ATC ?
Was never legal in SA.
ICASA would probably argue that logging into Flightradar is illegal if looking at illegally obtained signals from SA..


I agree it all should be legal in a proper country, but the ICASA rules are not proper.
They specifically state it is illegal to receive any band you dont have a license for other than the few radio bands that are "free".
They even made it basically impossible to get a handheld airband transceiver as backup if you dont own an aircraft, even if you are a licensed pilot (though a few have been lucky and gotten them somehow)
It sucks, but its its true.

Just wait till someone comments in parliament on the tracking of ZS-RSA via ADS-B or ACARS
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Re: FlightRadar24

Unread post by ppakotze » Tue Mar 17, 2015 3:20 pm

I don't know why we as enthusiast have to tell each other what is legal and what is not unless some one is a lawyer and can reference some paragraph in law somewhere.

Some incompetent bureaucrat might just be reading this forum and believe what he reads (everything on the internet is true after all) and start to prosecute someone.

Now we struggle to pay aircraft radio licenses and receive valid licenses for them so you fly with the receipt! as proof of payment. The same is true of radio amateurs and even commercial operators with VSAT or other licenses for most of these you never see the license.

Now you want to convince me that a government body who cannot even issue these licenses knows what is legal and what is not.

If 'they' do decide it is, they need to make this public and then do something about it. So please don't give them ideas.

Regards
P.
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Re: FlightRadar24

Unread post by Great Dane » Tue Mar 17, 2015 3:29 pm

ppakotze wrote:Some incompetent bureaucrat might just be reading this forum and believe what he reads (everything on the internet is true after all) and start to prosecute someone.
Agree, this is unwanted attention.

While Snitch probably is technically correct, the rules are very similar in many 'proper countries' as well, but still the FR24 project seems widely supported.
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Re: FlightRadar24

Unread post by Snitch » Tue Mar 17, 2015 6:16 pm

ppakotze wrote: If 'they' do decide it is, they need to make this public and then do something about it. So please don't give them ideas.
It is public, look at the court ruling against airband receivers recently and the telecommunications act others have referenced.

Agree that this should rather not be seen by those that will get ideas, but those taking the plunge must know what they are doing.

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