Dunning-Kruger effect.

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cage
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Re: Dunning-Kruger effect.

Unread post by cage » Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:19 pm

This cunning Druger oke sounds a bit smart for his pants. I'm sure he'd be impressed by the number of guys that seem certain he wasn't talking about them :smt017
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Re: Dunning-Kruger effect.

Unread post by deanvdm » Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:23 am

Spoke Eagle wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:15 pm
Agreed Andrem.
I think they said that some are too incapable to realise there inability and the flipside is that some who are capable are to docile to do what they can.
I've coined my own saying which is; the Arrogance of ignorence.
Maybe like this?


#-o
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Re: Dunning-Kruger effect.

Unread post by Volo » Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:39 pm

Good thing Trump isn't learning to fly - with his level of confidence he would kill himself on his first solo :roll:
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Re: Dunning-Kruger effect.

Unread post by bosvark » Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:50 pm

Volo wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:39 pm
Good thing Trump isn't learning to fly - with his level of confidence he would kill himself on his first solo :roll:
No. He's better at flying than anyone else...
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Re: Dunning-Kruger effect.

Unread post by Rooster » Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:09 am

1. Unconsciously incompetent
2. Consciously incompetent
3. Unconsciously competent
4. Consciously competent
1 and 4 are dangerous for different reasons.
Credit to Mark Patey's executive lecture - YouTube
It's worth the effort to watch.

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Re: Dunning-Kruger effect.

Unread post by 340 » Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:28 am

The last sentence sums it up perfectly !! Some people really do not know how stupid they are and some people really do not know how good a pilot I am :lol:

Dunning–Kruger effect
The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias wherein relatively unskilled individuals suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly assessing their ability to be much higher than is accurate. Dunning and Kruger attributed this bias to a meta cognitive inability of the unskilled to recognise their own ineptitude and evaluate their own ability accurately. Their research also suggests corollaries: highly skilled individuals may underestimate their relative competence, they may erroneously assume that tasks which are easy for them are also easy for others, and they may incorrectly suppose that their competence in a particular field extends to other fields in which they are less competent [1]. The bias was first experimentally observed by David Dunning and Justin Kruger of Cornell University in 1999.

Dunning and Kruger have postulated that the effect is the result of internal illusion in the unskilled and external misperception in the skilled: "The miscalibration of the incompetent stems from an error about the self, whereas the miscalibration of the highly competent stems from an error about others."[1]
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Re: Dunning-Kruger effect.

Unread post by apollo11 » Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:49 am

Are we not all at some instances in our lifetime subject to moments of the Dunning-Kruger effect.

Sure it can be ascertained that some individuals will have the ongoing personality to the effect, but I feel that every darn human will go through some of the effects from time to time in their lifetime - even me! :twisted:

I've seen some pretty bright people do some pretty stupid things thinking they were rather clever... and absolutely not singling out professionals but quite often saw the old Dunning-Kruger effect well in operation because they were convinced being so highly educated they were above approach. And that was when Dunning-Kruger effect gave them a sucker punch from behind... Too funny.

No. 1 - 4, umm I'm scared to make a choice of where I am! Ok I know I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed at times, we all have our strengths and weakness but at least I know I'm not the man all the time! :lol: :lol: But sometimes I get stuff really right and I grin like Dunning-Kruger effect has just been slain, other times Dunning-Kruger effect gives me the good news.

Next time I come out to a shrink I think my anxieties need to be resolved
Straighten up and fly right!
Perry
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Re: Dunning-Kruger effect.

Unread post by bosvark » Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:05 am

Read the description of the Dunning-Kruger effect properly. It is a double edged sword. Skilled in one field does not imply skilled in all fields but some do believe they are.

Self-proclaimed highly skilled individuals seems to like to apply it to the unskilled who suffers from illusory superiority whilst they themselves are in fact unskilled when it comes to fields other than that in which they are skilled. They then make the error to believe that they are also skilled in those unskilled areas. (skilled in everything)
In everyday life we know them as arrogant, know-it-alls.
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Re: Dunning-Kruger effect.

Unread post by apollo11 » Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:07 am

Bosvark you just explained it better than I could, absolutely.
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Re: Dunning-Kruger effect.

Unread post by stheeman » Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:01 pm

A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare
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Re: Dunning-Kruger effect.

Unread post by SaraLima » Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:43 am

Rooster wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:09 am
1. Unconsciously incompetent
2. Consciously incompetent
3. Unconsciously competent
4. Consciously competent
1 and 4 are dangerous for different reasons.
Credit to Mark Patey's executive lecture - YouTube
It's worth the effort to watch.

Reid
Hi Rooster.. If I remember my CRM training (doubtful) you have the order of progression incorrect.. IIRC the development cycle is:

1. Unconsciously Incompetent
2. Consciously Incompetent
3. Consciously Competent
4. Unconsciously Competent.

In this case 1 and 4 could be considered "issue areas" :D (#4 because its "habitual competence")
There are three simple rules for making a perfect landing. Unfortunately, no one knows what they are.
I was flying in uniform when you were still in liquid form :wink:
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Re: Dunning-Kruger effect.

Unread post by SaraLima » Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:46 am

stheeman wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:01 pm
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare
=D> =D> :smt023 +1
There are three simple rules for making a perfect landing. Unfortunately, no one knows what they are.
I was flying in uniform when you were still in liquid form :wink:
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Re: Dunning-Kruger effect.

Unread post by antonkr » Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:51 am

Rooster wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:09 am
1. Unconsciously incompetent
2. Consciously incompetent
3. Unconsciously competent
4. Consciously competent
1. Unconsciously Incompetent - Not knowing what you don't know (novice)
2. Consciously Incompetent - Know what do don't know (some experience)
3. Consciously Competent - Know what you know (skillfully experienced)
4. Unconsciously Competent - (Master and Mentor)

This goes together with the three domains of learning, ie

1. Knowledge
2. Skills
3. Attitude

Many people have good knowledge and skills, but lack the concomitant attitude. If you do not have the same level in each three domains, you would battle to get past # 2. Consciously Incompetent - Know what do don't know (some experience) and this is in most cases to do with the attitude at that level. In flying this is often the case where you have a skillful pilot with extensive knowledge, but all those in the know remark that he is an accident waiting to happen
Antonkr
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Re: Dunning-Kruger effect.

Unread post by JCA » Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:39 am

The graph needs an additional curve on it. The pilots bank balance....
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Re: Dunning-Kruger effect.

Unread post by apollo11 » Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:49 am

JCA wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:39 am
The graph needs an additional curve on it. The pilots bank balance....
:lol: Yes and would the curves change to reflect that consideration, I think the whole graph could go inverse at certain points.
Straighten up and fly right!
Perry

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