Avcom losing valuable contributors.

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ERNIE
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Re: Avcom losing valuable contributors.

Unread post by ERNIE » Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:02 pm

[/quote]

Cage, regarding your first comment above, if a three year old tells you that the best car is a VW - are you going to take her seriously?



jim
[/quote]

jim, not really...…. but I'm afraid she IS dead right in her answer. :wink: :wink: :) :D

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Re: Avcom losing valuable contributors.

Unread post by jimdavis » Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:09 pm

Float_flyer wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:21 pm
jimdavis wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:11 pm
Float_flyer wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:40 pm
I recently came across an interesting opinion on the state of interpersonal communication

The opinion stated that society has moved to a “feelings are more important than facts” approach, and points direct to widespread lack of critical thinking and narcissism

People must accept that what is “said” online has the same legal responsibility as if in real life
Wow, FF, I find that very interesting would you like to PM me a link to the article or discussion, please?

jim
It was a YouTube suggested documentary I watched a while back. I’ll see if I can track it down again
Thanks FF - if it's not too much trouble, I am really interested. :D

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Re: Avcom losing valuable contributors.

Unread post by Bowie » Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:24 pm

If the moderators could at least make an effort to sift out the amateur Trolls it will make AVCOM a much better place to visit.
If you are ashamed to identify yourself go and find another social medium.
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Re: Avcom losing valuable contributors.

Unread post by Christo » Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:36 pm

Bowie wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:24 pm
If the moderators could at least make an effort to sift out the amateur Trolls it will make AVCOM a much better place to visit.
If you are ashamed to identify yourself go and find another social medium.
Wow. If this is not irony I don't know what is! :shock:
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Re: Avcom losing valuable contributors.

Unread post by Multirotordronepilot » Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:18 pm

Bowie wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:24 pm
If the moderators could at least make an effort to sift out the amateur Trolls it will make AVCOM a much better place to visit.
If you are ashamed to identify yourself go and find another social medium.
Its exactly this level of comms which becomes the catalyst towards a mud slinging episode and members attacking each other.

I hope you have a pleasant weekend Bowie
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Re: Avcom losing valuable contributors.

Unread post by vanjast » Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:23 pm

Bowie wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:24 pm
If the moderators could at least make an effort to sift out the amateur Trolls it will make AVCOM a much better place to visit.
If you are ashamed to identify yourself go and find another social medium.
A sense of humour is a good attribute to have ;)
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Re: Avcom losing valuable contributors.

Unread post by evanb » Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:50 pm

Bowie wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:24 pm
If the moderators could at least make an effort to sift out the amateur Trolls it will make AVCOM a much better place to visit.
If you are ashamed to identify yourself go and find another social medium.
Easy, if you think someone is an amateur troll then click the report button and note it. The moderators will then look at the reported posts and make a determination.
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Re: Avcom losing valuable contributors.

Unread post by evanb » Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:54 pm

Chuck wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:39 pm
Freedom of speech died a long time ago on this forum. Therefore I can't see an issue in turning it into a safe space for people that need protection against feeling offended. It will go at the expense of truth, sharp debate, intelligent speculation and good humour since all of these things offend people. By giving them 'rights', the easily offended will stifle the forum and moderators. Avcom has lost many valuable contributors that know how to call a spade.
How many of those ran into moderators because someone felt 'offended' ?
I think you misunderstand the concept of freedom of speech. Freedom of speech is in reference to the state or government authority restricting your speech. Avcom is a private service with a terms of service. Violating that terms of service is a violation of an implicit contract and can be dealt with by any manner in which the owner of Avcom wishes, including exclusion from it. It has nothing to do with the state or government. In fact, when you join a private forum like Avcom, it's Avcom's expression of free speech, not yours that's in question.
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Re: Avcom losing valuable contributors.

Unread post by southside » Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:00 am

I dont know how many, if any people on this forum know who evanb is...I dont. But he is a great example of someone who has proper merit! He knows what he is talking about.

Should we discredit him (and others) because he doesnt have his real/full name?

When scrolling through posts, when I see his name, amongst others, I always pay attention.
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Re: Avcom losing valuable contributors.

Unread post by jimdavis » Sat Feb 09, 2019 6:17 am

southside wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:00 am
I dont know how many, if any people on this forum know who evanb is...I dont. But he is a great example of someone who has proper merit! He knows what he is talking about.

Should we discredit him (and others) because he doesnt have his real/full name?

When scrolling through posts, when I see his name, amongst others, I always pay attention.
Good point SS. Ha ha ha - actually I think evanb was a pupil of mine, who disappeared over the Atlantic. Maybe his spirit passes on on the good sense that this Avcommer talks!

And three are many like him whom I do take very seriously. But that's not my point, When you click on an avatar and find that the person behind the pseudonym has no gender, no job, no hobbies, no age, no past, no hometown, and is wearing a paper bag over his head. Well put it this way if you met this person in the pub and they wouldn't disclose any of these things, would you really want to hang out with them for long? Do their opinions, or statements of 'fact' have the value you would like? Aren't we all a little wary of newspapers whose sources are undisclosed?

Perhaps it's the same as painting by an unknown artist who leaves his pictures unsigned - they are unlikely to attract much value.

If my doctor expressed an opinion on chicken pox I would believe that, rather than something I read in Scope. :lol:

If I know that a guy is a motorcycle mechanic then I am more likely to listen to his views on engine cooling, than if he admitted to having no mechanical experience.

OK I have made my point - you are far more likely to be interesting, and your opinions respected, if your audience knows something about you. That why good speakers are always introduced.

OK enough already. All of the above is just the opinion of some blob I met in the street. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Perhaps the pseudonym is not so important, but let's have some idea of we are talking to - just out of interest, if for no other reason.

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Re: Avcom losing valuable contributors.

Unread post by Calle_Hedberg » Sat Feb 09, 2019 6:17 am

Hi,

This thread is almost exclusively about appearances, behaviour, and personal dynamics - all relevant, of course, but not the main reason I only infrequently browse through Avcom these days. Two other aspects have been more important for me:

1.
During the first 5-10 years of my flying and interest in aviation I learned a lot of stuff from participating in Avcom, but then gradually less - presumably both because my own knowledge improved AND because Avcom has few if any participants at the cutting edge of aviation innovation and/or few recent adventure fliers. During the first years I enjoyed the many discussions around engine design, fuel types, flutter, metal versus composite, all the different V-speeds, wing design, steam gauge versus digital, map reading versus GNSS - you name it. Gradually those discussions became repetitive, telling me mostly things I already knew - and I found it more and more difficult to find the new and exciting stuff (for me), on Avcom and all other aviation forums & magazines etc.

A few examples of what I mean by cutting edge innovation / advanced info:

A. Engine design
I've been very interested in engine design for years, but if anybody on Avcom has in-depth knowledge of what's really going on with e.g. electric propulsion or new diesels or smaller turbines or adapted mass-produced (= cheaper) petrol engines, I haven't seen any signs of it. Most threads on engine/propulsion/fuel tend to be linked to "news" (read: marketing pieces) from some engine producers/developers, or else re-hashing the same old data and arguments.

The last five years I have found it increasingly difficult to get useful/actionable answers even related to my own 60-year-old-design Lycosaurus: questions around how to minimize cooling drag, plenums versus baffles, how to reduce drops in the air intake system, electronic ignition gains, causes of remedies for sticky valves, analysis of engine probe data, etc. My impression is largely that (a) there are so many engine models and installation designs that few people have comparative experience; (b) those sitting on large amount of comparative data (like engine manufacturers and large engine workshops) don't want to share or they only release what fits their commercial/legal interests; and (c) many/most of the others who believe they have a lot of experience tend to be rigid in their line of arguments (Walther might enjoy round 347 of the same LOP-ROP debate - I don't).

I don't "blame" Avcom or Avcommers for this, of course - it largely reflect the fact that Avcom just like most "enthusiast" aviators are part of a greying community. The grey beards are great, but they can only teach so much - and little about cutting edge innovation. It's like with cars - I feel like having graduated from a general interest in many cars and many types of adventure driving to an interest in adventure car racing, and getting inside technical info from that community is much harder.

B. Realistic scenarios for aeronautical decision-making.
I started feeling much the same about many of the safety, flight planning and decision-making discussions. Many of them, in particular related to accidents, tend to end up with the same causes and the same reasoning - reflecting the fact that there are few "new" causes of accidents that haven't been seen before. So after 5-10 years there wasn't much to learn (during the last 5 years, I have found a few European and American accident reports more enlightening - some of them are REALLY good and reflect a very high level of expertise).

All the more general decision-making/risk assessment/planning discussions tend to suffer from people preferring advocacy of the "right" approach instead of exploring the "grey areas". My perspective and interest, which typically would be adventure flying with intermittent sections of marginal flying and often continuous risk analysis, requires less black and white and more grey, like for instance:

Icing risk: "grab a beer and don't go, or turn around immediately" would be the typical debate angle, whereas I was interested in how to cope with moderate icing and making informed decisions about when to continue (assuming available back doors) and when not.

Evolving CB's situations: scenarios and balanced decision-making, based on available information (forecasts, sat weather, stormscope, weather radar) and trends - as in contrast to the "just don't go" advice. During my RTW flight and later in SA I felt increasingly confident in my own risk assessments, but I mostly had to learn through experience.

Scenario building and decision-making: Most of the debates on Avcom around e.g. weather analysis, VFR on/over the top, windshear, effect of heavy rain, heavy traffic, and so forth were IMHO guided by an assumption that because some Avcommers are young or inexperienced and presumed doff-prone, then all advice must be of the "if there is a shred of doubt, there is no doubt" type so that we don't lead them off the narrow path.

My flying, and in general my interest in aviation (and life), has never been to "live safely" at all times. Taking calculated risks, minimising the impact of any unlikely mishaps, and enjoying it.

I will stop there - just wanted to point out that the occasional grumpy post or troll don't bother some of us (compared to the fascist/racist/misogynistic garbage you see on many other internet/facebook forums, most Avcommers would sail through the pearly gates with some mild spanking only). I would have liked to think that e.g. Avcom could create more in-depth discussions through planned, well-prepared threads - but in practice such things are too resource intensive for a volunteer forum. Getting relatively well-resourced aviation publications to do the same is next to impossible, too - when did anybody last see an independent, in-depth, comparative analysis of X aviation engines or aircraft with independently verified data?

My 2c worth
& greetings from a snowy Oslo
Calle
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Re: Avcom losing valuable contributors.

Unread post by SaraLima » Sat Feb 09, 2019 6:44 am

Multirotordronepilot wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:39 pm
southside wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:10 pm
I find it ironic that the OP posted under a pseudonym.

As far as I know, you can put your real name in your signature at the bottom of the post.

I can put my real name as Jon Macey if I like...how will mods police this? Will we need a certified copy of our ID and proof of residence to register?

I think it is silly to worry about a topic like this. Let it be...once you have lurked the halls of avcom you get to know which posters have merit, real name or not. The k@k talkers and trolls are easily seen through and weeded out.

If it bothers you that much then dont read it

In my opinion many have missed Goose's intentions which I think had very little to do with pseudonyms ( can't stand the word ) although he did make mention of. I think his message was that the level of disrespect shown by members towards each other whether they fly under their real name or not has become a concern and possibly a reason why some people have withdrawn.
Indeed MRDP.. agreed.. see my post above.. You're anonymous anyway.. pseudonym or not.
The problems are different and real and actually have little to do with pseudonyms.
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Re: Avcom losing valuable contributors.

Unread post by SaraLima » Sat Feb 09, 2019 6:46 am

jimdavis wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:17 pm
SaraLima wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:31 pm
I must confess, Jim, that I feel somewhat hurt by your comments..
Indeed Owen, but you can't possibly think that was accidental. :lol:

jim
After so many years, cast onto the trash heap of expediency.. *sob* :cry:
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Re: Avcom losing valuable contributors.

Unread post by cage » Sat Feb 09, 2019 7:25 am

Christo wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:36 pm
Bowie wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:24 pm
If the moderators could at least make an effort to sift out the amateur Trolls it will make AVCOM a much better place to visit.
If you are ashamed to identify yourself go and find another social medium.
Wow. If this is not irony I don't know what is! :shock:
Indeed. The double standards are rife and most that complain can't see it.
It is OK to behave like that if you feel strongly about something but if you are on the receiving end then that is dead wrong.
If most that are unhappy about the situation do some introspection, and review their own contributions, they may find how they have fallen short of the standards they expect everyone else to meet, And not an apology in sight.
If we are to get anywhere, that starts by recognising there are no saints here and before you remove splinters from someones eye, remove the log from your own.
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Re: Avcom losing valuable contributors.

Unread post by Bowie » Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:07 am

Bowie : Avator
My real name is Bo Burger and I am a retired ATC / Pilot. Been in aviation since the middle, late sixties and still very active in a lot of aviation related activities.
All my information is on my profile with the administrators.
AVCOM is dying as far as I am concerned, and I do not feel happy about that as it used to be a font of information to operate and fly safely.
Cage, and the others referring to irony etc. I challenge you to do the same, put your names out.
Regards,
Bowie.

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