Avcom losing valuable contributors.

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jimdavis
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Re: Avcom losing valuable contributors.

Unread post by jimdavis » Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:30 am

Bowie wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:07 am
Bowie : Avator
My real name is Bo Burger and I am a retired ATC / Pilot. Been in aviation since the middle, late sixties and still very active in a lot of aviation related activities.
All my information is on my profile with the administrators.
AVCOM is dying as far as I am concerned, and I do not feel happy about that as it used to be a font of information to operate and fly safely.
Cage, and the others referring to irony etc. I challenge you to do the same, put your names out.
Regards,
Bowie.
Thanks Bo, I was starting to feel lonely. :D

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Re: Avcom losing valuable contributors.

Unread post by SlowApproach » Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:33 am

As other posters have said, the issue actually has very little to do with anonymity. If someone is being a box it is easy enough to report them.

As regards quality of posts, why not actually CONTRIBUTE?

Put your knowledge and/or opinion out there. I see a lot of "takers" but few willing to put in the time to "give".

So what if one's knowledge or opinion is shot down, despite being valid? Again, I say, if someone is being an unreasonable box about it, they can easily be "taken down".
Behind every angry woman is a man who has absolutely no idea what he did wrong.
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Re: Avcom losing valuable contributors.

Unread post by Jack Welles » Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:38 am

Anyway if someone does give a name with a full background in the profile etc - how do you know it's genuine? :?
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Re: Avcom losing valuable contributors.

Unread post by StressMerchant » Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:43 am

My 2c worth:

I prefer to remain relatively anonymous. My reasons are twofold:

1. I mainly post on technical issues. I like my posts to be judged on the content, not on who you think I am or where you think I fit into your hierarchy. I see this as a method of ensuring that the content gets debated, not the poster.

2. Some of us are encouraged by our employers to be discrete in our dealings on the Internet. Not an outfight ban, just ensure that we are not seen to represent the company. By remaining somewhat anonymous, I can avoid anything that I say being interpreted as my employer's opinion, or even being interpreted as unhappiness with my employer or customer
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Re: Avcom losing valuable contributors.

Unread post by SlowApproach » Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:44 am

Jack Welles wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:38 am
Anyway if someone does give a name with a full background in the profile etc - how do you know it's genuine? :?
A very good question indeed.
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Re: Avcom losing valuable contributors.

Unread post by SlowApproach » Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:47 am

StressMerchant wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:43 am
My 2c worth:

I prefer to remain relatively anonymous. My reasons are twofold:

1. I mainly post on technical issues. I like my posts to be judged on the content, not on who you think I am or where you think I fit into your hierarchy. I see this as a method of ensuring that the content gets debated, not the poster.

2. Some of us are encouraged by our employers to be discrete in our dealings on the Internet. Not an outfight ban, just ensure that we are not seen to represent the company. By remaining somewhat anonymous, I can avoid anything that I say being interpreted as my employer's opinion, or even being interpreted as unhappiness with my employer or customer
+1
Behind every angry woman is a man who has absolutely no idea what he did wrong.
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Re: Avcom losing valuable contributors.

Unread post by cage » Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:52 am

Bowie wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:07 am
Bowie : Avator
My real name is Bo Burger and I am a retired ATC / Pilot. Been in aviation since the middle, late sixties and still very active in a lot of aviation related activities.
All my information is on my profile with the administrators.
AVCOM is dying as far as I am concerned, and I do not feel happy about that as it used to be a font of information to operate and fly safely.
Cage, and the others referring to irony etc. I challenge you to do the same, put your names out.
Regards,
Bowie.
It's not a secret. Anyone worth knowing already knows as is the case with many other members.
Feel free to pm me if you really want to know.
The reality is knowing anyone's "name" without knowing the person is absolutely pointless.
Knowing you are "bo" has no bearing on how anyone will read your post apart from a small group that just doesn't get it, and who like talking about respect but don't want to respect the terms of this site because it doesn't conform to their liking.
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Re: Avcom losing valuable contributors.

Unread post by Fransw » Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:57 am

SlowApproach wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:47 am
StressMerchant wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:43 am
My 2c worth:

I prefer to remain relatively anonymous. My reasons are twofold:

1. I mainly post on technical issues. I like my posts to be judged on the content, not on who you think I am or where you think I fit into your hierarchy. I see this as a method of ensuring that the content gets debated, not the poster.

2. Some of us are encouraged by our employers to be discrete in our dealings on the Internet. Not an outfight ban, just ensure that we are not seen to represent the company. By remaining somewhat anonymous, I can avoid anything that I say being interpreted as my employer's opinion, or even being interpreted as unhappiness with my employer or customer
+1
+1 :mrgreen:
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Re: Avcom losing valuable contributors.

Unread post by Falafel » Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:11 pm

jimdavis wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:30 am
Bowie wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:07 am
Bowie : Avator
My real name is Bo Burger and I am a retired ATC / Pilot. Been in aviation since the middle, late sixties and still very active in a lot of aviation related activities.
All my information is on my profile with the administrators.
AVCOM is dying as far as I am concerned, and I do not feel happy about that as it used to be a font of information to operate and fly safely.
Cage, and the others referring to irony etc. I challenge you to do the same, put your names out.
Regards,
Bowie.
Thanks Bo, I was starting to feel lonely. :D

jim
Maybe the stats are the only way to see if Avcom is really dying.

Avcom is just indicative of the environment we are all living in.. its tough out there and people are fighting on all fronts.

Not sure why everyone thinks that giving names will solve things... think of how many people have been banned who are well known, used their names and are no longer around.

Avcom moderation job has just grown thats all... "banning immediately" wont solve things.. in fact I think that might make it worse and lead to the demise of Avcom... let it run a little and see what happens... bring back some of the old posters that were banned... Only Avcom can decide if the increased moderation job is worth the effort of a "commercial Avcom"...

Politics, race, religion etc by all means but there is something to be learnt from all arguments and no one is obliged to participate or read...
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Re: Avcom losing valuable contributors.

Unread post by Marius Schrenk » Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:12 pm

Chuck wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:39 pm
Freedom of speech died a long time ago on this forum. Therefore I can't see an issue in turning it into a safe space for people that need protection against feeling offended. It will go at the expense of truth, sharp debate, intelligent speculation and good humour since all of these things offend people. By giving them 'rights', the easily offended will stifle the forum and moderators. Avcom has lost many valuable contributors that know how to call a spade.
How many of those ran into moderators because someone felt 'offended' ?
=D> =D> =D> or Avcom being spooked by the CAA to hide the truth.....Im thinking Mauler. :twisted:
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Re: Avcom losing valuable contributors.

Unread post by Roger » Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:20 pm

Falafel wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:11 pm

Maybe the stats are the only way to see if Avcom is really dying.
Nothing untoward in the stats at present other than drop mid last year in pages which is attributed to a software upgrade we did. Later version is much more efficient in the paging such as no new page when you 'Mark Topics Read' or other notifications. Actual visits are up and the number of visitors is pretty constant at 100 000 viewers per month.
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Re: Avcom losing valuable contributors.

Unread post by Iceberg » Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:30 pm

jimdavis wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:37 pm

Karl, I do apologise if I was rude or disrespectful. I don't remember the discussion, but I do remember having strong feelings about something you posted. Sincere apologise Karl.

jim
The discussion was about flying into thunderstorms. Your reaction just killed the discussion for me. Once the aviation Gods start pounding you, any reasonable discussion goes out the window.

Calle summed it up better than I can in this quote, on the previous page:
Calle_Hedberg wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 6:17 am
B. Realistic scenarios for aeronautical decision-making.
I started feeling much the same about many of the safety, flight planning and decision-making discussions. Many of them, in particular related to accidents, tend to end up with the same causes and the same reasoning - reflecting the fact that there are few "new" causes of accidents that haven't been seen before. So after 5-10 years there wasn't much to learn (during the last 5 years, I have found a few European and American accident reports more enlightening - some of them are REALLY good and reflect a very high level of expertise).

All the more general decision-making/risk assessment/planning discussions tend to suffer from people preferring advocacy of the "right" approach instead of exploring the "grey areas". My perspective and interest, which typically would be adventure flying with intermittent sections of marginal flying and often continuous risk analysis, requires less black and white and more grey, like for instance:

Icing risk: "grab a beer and don't go, or turn around immediately" would be the typical debate angle, whereas I was interested in how to cope with moderate icing and making informed decisions about when to continue (assuming available back doors) and when not.

Evolving CB's situations: scenarios and balanced decision-making, based on available information (forecasts, sat weather, stormscope, weather radar) and trends - as in contrast to the "just don't go" advice. During my RTW flight and later in SA I felt increasingly confident in my own risk assessments, but I mostly had to learn through experience.

Scenario building and decision-making: Most of the debates on Avcom around e.g. weather analysis, VFR on/over the top, windshear, effect of heavy rain, heavy traffic, and so forth were IMHO guided by an assumption that because some Avcommers are young or inexperienced and presumed doff-prone, then all advice must be of the "if there is a shred of doubt, there is no doubt" type so that we don't lead them off the narrow path.

My flying, and in general my interest in aviation (and life), has never been to "live safely" at all times. Taking calculated risks, minimising the impact of any unlikely mishaps, and enjoying it.

& greetings from a snowy Oslo
Calle

I just related my experience, and like Calle have learnt to survive flying all kinds of weather for more than 20 years. But if I dare say something against the grain, I get blasted. So I'll just keep my tales to myself - out of here...
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Re: Avcom losing valuable contributors.

Unread post by JSB » Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:47 pm

Iceberg wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:30 pm
jimdavis wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:37 pm

Karl, I do apologise if I was rude or disrespectful. I don't remember the discussion, but I do remember having strong feelings about something you posted. Sincere apologise Karl.

jim
The discussion was about flying into thunderstorms. Your reaction just killed the discussion for me. Once the aviation Gods start pounding you, any reasonable discussion goes out the window.

Calle summed it up better than I can in this quote, on the previous page:
Calle_Hedberg wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 6:17 am
B. Realistic scenarios for aeronautical decision-making.
I started feeling much the same about many of the safety, flight planning and decision-making discussions. Many of them, in particular related to accidents, tend to end up with the same causes and the same reasoning - reflecting the fact that there are few "new" causes of accidents that haven't been seen before. So after 5-10 years there wasn't much to learn (during the last 5 years, I have found a few European and American accident reports more enlightening - some of them are REALLY good and reflect a very high level of expertise).

All the more general decision-making/risk assessment/planning discussions tend to suffer from people preferring advocacy of the "right" approach instead of exploring the "grey areas". My perspective and interest, which typically would be adventure flying with intermittent sections of marginal flying and often continuous risk analysis, requires less black and white and more grey, like for instance:

Icing risk: "grab a beer and don't go, or turn around immediately" would be the typical debate angle, whereas I was interested in how to cope with moderate icing and making informed decisions about when to continue (assuming available back doors) and when not.

Evolving CB's situations: scenarios and balanced decision-making, based on available information (forecasts, sat weather, stormscope, weather radar) and trends - as in contrast to the "just don't go" advice. During my RTW flight and later in SA I felt increasingly confident in my own risk assessments, but I mostly had to learn through experience.

Scenario building and decision-making: Most of the debates on Avcom around e.g. weather analysis, VFR on/over the top, windshear, effect of heavy rain, heavy traffic, and so forth were IMHO guided by an assumption that because some Avcommers are young or inexperienced and presumed doff-prone, then all advice must be of the "if there is a shred of doubt, there is no doubt" type so that we don't lead them off the narrow path.

My flying, and in general my interest in aviation (and life), has never been to "live safely" at all times. Taking calculated risks, minimising the impact of any unlikely mishaps, and enjoying it.

& greetings from a snowy Oslo
Calle

I just related my experience, and like Calle have learnt to survive flying all kinds of weather for more than 20 years. But if I dare say something against the grain, I get blasted. So I'll just keep my tales to myself - out of here...
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Personal attacks are not permitted - please refrain from doing this
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Re: Avcom losing valuable contributors.

Unread post by cage » Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:47 pm

StressMerchant wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:43 am
Trimmed for brevity..
I prefer to remain relatively anonymous...
.... or even being interpreted as unhappiness with my employer or customer
Exactly.
I considered changing my handle a couple of times and eventually decided not to.
The reasons were simple:

-I like my handle, it's a nickname I earned a while back but that's a different story.
-Most people already know who I am, so it's not a secret.
-I am no less full of <<moderated - language>> in person than I am online (though less misinterpreted in person)
-I'm not looking for approval from strangers, so why do something to please people that are determined to not be pleased
-The snide or sarky responses I get (and often deserve) won't change, most know (or think they do) so why would it be different?

Besides, this has nothing to do with knowing who anyone is.
Those complaining about pseudonyms are happy to do so using one or to be validated by anonymous posters.
This really stems from when someone is unable to explain a belief and, when someone strongly disagrees with them it ends up with offence being taken.
The argument has contradicted itself at every turn and despite the moderators having shown why the concept doesn't work, it is a personal belief that rears it's head.
Like any personal belief it only works for like-minded people.

Sincerely
Winston Churchill.
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Re: Avcom losing valuable contributors.

Unread post by SlowApproach » Sat Feb 09, 2019 1:07 pm

I'm curious now: Exactly how many "valuable contributors" have been "lost"?

Considering that Avcom has around 24732 registered members and really only a very few of those are making any posts at all and with 100s of thousands only lurking, something is wrong, very wrong. And it's not Avcom's fault. There's absolutely nothing wrong with Avcom itself!

I've been contacted via PM by people asking me something because they don't want to post their questions or opinions publicly, because they are afraid of being ridiculed or put down. There is a distinct perception that unless you are an airline pilot with 10000 hours under your belt or you have flown 20 different aircraft types over 40 years, you are a total nobody and should either be ignored or ridiculed. In other words, there is some perceived exclusivity going on. And THEREIN lies the fault.
Last edited by SlowApproach on Sat Feb 09, 2019 6:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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