Avcom losing valuable contributors.

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SlowApproach
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Re: Avcom losing valuable contributors.

Unread post by SlowApproach » Sat Feb 09, 2019 1:07 pm

I'm curious now: Exactly how many "valuable contributors" have been "lost"?

Considering that Avcom has around 24732 registered members and really only a very few of those are making any posts at all and with 100s of thousands only lurking, something is wrong, very wrong. And it's not Avcom's fault. There's absolutely nothing wrong with Avcom itself!

I've been contacted via PM by people asking me something because they don't want to post their questions or opinions publicly, because they are afraid of being ridiculed or put down. There is a distinct perception that unless you are an airline pilot with 10000 hours under your belt or you have flown 20 different aircraft types over 40 years, you are a total nobody and should either be ignored or ridiculed. In other words, there is some perceived exclusivity going on. And THEREIN lies the fault.
Last edited by SlowApproach on Sat Feb 09, 2019 6:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Avcom losing valuable contributors.

Unread post by cage » Sat Feb 09, 2019 1:20 pm

SlowApproach wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 1:07 pm
I'm curious now: Exactly how many "valuable contributors" have been "lost"?
Depends how you measure or define valuable?
Your experience is similar to others.
I don't think many airline pilots are active any longer.
Certainly those I know that don't take part, view the site as being (going to paraphrase here, not my words) dominated by drivel from weekend warriors.
Avcom is a site mainly used by present and former recreational pilots/enthusiasts (a bit of an assumption on my part, so happy to be shown I'm incorrect), and that is possibly a bigger turn off for current experienced contributors than anyone's account name.
There also has been a lot of politically/racially charged commentary over the years, though thanks to the mods effort has been put back into its little box.
Others have gone the way of being banned for various reasons, which is unfortunate, but when you are a guest in someone else's home dictating the rules won't sit well.
Last edited by cage on Sat Feb 09, 2019 1:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Avcom losing valuable contributors.

Unread post by JSB » Sat Feb 09, 2019 1:21 pm

I just related my experience, and like Calle have learnt to survive flying all kinds of weather for more than 20 years. But if I dare say something against the grain, I get blasted. So I'll just keep my tales to myself - out of here...
[/quote]

Excellent idea, please do.
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Re: Avcom losing valuable contributors.

Unread post by jimdavis » Sat Feb 09, 2019 1:23 pm

jimdavis wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:37 pm

Karl, I do apologise if I was rude or disrespectful. I don't remember the discussion, but I do remember having strong feelings about something you posted. Sincere apologise Karl.

jim
Iceberg wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:30 pm
The discussion was about flying into thunderstorms. Your reaction just killed the discussion for me. Once the aviation Gods start pounding you, any reasonable discussion goes out the window.
Good afternoon Karl. I am really surprised at your reaction. I have just had a look at our discussion on thunderstorms.

I was neither rude nor disrespectful, but out of respect I apologised (above) just in case I had been.

I agree that I put my case for avoiding thunderstorms forcefully. Why not? I do feel strongly about it. But at no time was I personal, rude or disrespectful. There was plenty of space for an interesting discussion on it if you had chosen to go down that road.

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Re: Avcom losing valuable contributors.

Unread post by Volo » Sat Feb 09, 2019 1:24 pm

I have a notion that there is this growing perception that this forum is broken .
I don't think it is . To my mind its doing what it set out to do in that its offering free speech and diverse opinion and why would we want to put rules in place that would take that away . Sure we are going to see some muddled opinion from time to time and even personal attacks that can be dealt with by the mods - so what ?
Please keep it going as all in all it has proved to be a very informative , entertaining and educating platform and yes there is a need for both pseudonyms and real names for the reasons stated by previous posters . If you are an individual whose identity would not cause any professional embarrassment, then by all means use your real name . You may even want the forum members to know your identity for a variety of reasons .
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Re: Avcom losing valuable contributors.

Unread post by SlowApproach » Sat Feb 09, 2019 1:34 pm

cage wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 1:20 pm
Depends how you measure or define valuable?
That's what I'd like to know too :wink:
(Just trying to make sense of the thread title)
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Re: Avcom losing valuable contributors.

Unread post by Jack Welles » Sat Feb 09, 2019 2:32 pm

SlowApproach wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 1:34 pm
cage wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 1:20 pm
Depends how you measure or define valuable?
That's what I'd like to know too :wink:
(Just trying to make sense of the thread title)
:-k It seems as though some of those that support this notion define it as the people that they agree with or who agree with them.

Ergo, the people who don't agree with them are clearly less valuable :lol:
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Re: Avcom losing valuable contributors.

Unread post by Fransw » Sat Feb 09, 2019 3:33 pm

"Ask not what your forum can do for you, but what you can do for your forum!" - Oom Sama Bin Laden 1803
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Re: Avcom losing valuable contributors.

Unread post by OG » Sat Feb 09, 2019 7:20 pm

This is like the bar at the local gliding club (few flying clubs have bars remaining😉). We go there to be in the company of likeminded people, or to have our weekly fix of amber liquid. Sometimes the conversation is good, sometimes its boring and sometimes its heated. But in the end, those with the passion will be back, even if they just lurk on the fringe. And the << moderated - language>> will be wheeled out eventually.
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Re: Avcom losing valuable contributors.

Unread post by 87Juliet » Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:14 pm

cage wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:47 pm

-I am no less full of <<moderated - language>> in person than I am online (though less misinterpreted in person)
I’ll gladly confirm this statement SirCage...

My name, phone number and place of work in my signature...

So my 2c, in this day and age there is this increasing idea that it’s critical to HAVE to say “something”, even if it’s waffle... personally I was taught that if I didn’t have anything meaningful to say or contribute to a conversation then I should shut my mouth and listen and perhaps I could learn something.

My instruction manual for life states in Proverbs 10:19 “When words are many, transgression is not absent, but he who restrains his lips is wise”.

As for the OP... #lipszipped
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Re: Avcom losing valuable contributors.

Unread post by jimdavis » Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:35 pm

OG wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 7:20 pm
This is like the bar at the local gliding club (few flying clubs have bars remaining😉). We go there to be in the company of likeminded people, or to have our weekly fix of amber liquid. Sometimes the conversation is good, sometimes its boring and sometimes its heated. But in the end, those with the passion will be back, even if they just lurk on the fringe. And the << moderated - language>> will be wheeled out eventually.
Oscar Goudriaan - or just OG, which is my contest number when I glide
Thanks Oscar, good to know your name, and that's a very interesting post.

I have been giving this whole Avcom thing serious thought. I originally imagined it would be like a big flying club pub - but it simply isn't. You would very quickly get bored in a pub where 90% of the members had bags over their heads and insisted on being called "X". They won't tell you what they are doing in aviation, or where they work, or where they live, or if they have a family, or any interests and hobbies. I am afraid that this is the state of the Avcom pub.

So why do we bother at all? I pretty much only click with people who have names and hobbies etc. I deplore sarcasm, snide remarks, bragging, and rude or disrespectful behaviour. All of which seem to be on the increase.

So I have to admit that my interest in Avcom is confined to hearing from the 10% who are not in hiding. I also like trying to find out why accidents happen, trying to guide newer pilots away from accidents, and getting involved question and answer sessions. I have learned a hell of a lot about all sorts of things. We are lucky to have members who are specialists in a huge variety of aviation fields - many of which I know very little about. I find Avcom is a wonderful source of information - and I am always amazed how almost any question eventually gets a sensible answer.

Perhaps alongs the most valuable contributors are those who spark interesting discussions by asking questions. I just love people who ask questions. They show a healthy willingness to learn, rather than a know-it-all attitude.

At a dinner party, ask why the sky is blue. You will get all sorts of half-baked replies. The most sensible one is "I don't know - let's find out". This is the part of Avcom that I love.

jim
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Re: Avcom losing valuable contributors.

Unread post by OG » Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:45 pm

I agree Jim, but also subscribe to live and let live. Sometimes its more important to be happy than to be right
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Re: Avcom losing valuable contributors.

Unread post by Iceberg » Sun Feb 10, 2019 11:32 am

jimdavis wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 1:23 pm
jimdavis wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:37 pm

Karl, I do apologise if I was rude or disrespectful. I don't remember the discussion, but I do remember having strong feelings about something you posted. Sincere apologise Karl.

jim
Iceberg wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:30 pm
The discussion was about flying into thunderstorms. Your reaction just killed the discussion for me. Once the aviation Gods start pounding you, any reasonable discussion goes out the window.
Good afternoon Karl. I am really surprised at your reaction. I have just had a look at our discussion on thunderstorms.

I was neither rude nor disrespectful, but out of respect I apologised (above) just in case I had been.

I agree that I put my case for avoiding thunderstorms forcefully. Why not? I do feel strongly about it. But at no time was I personal, rude or disrespectful. There was plenty of space for an interesting discussion on it if you had chosen to go down that road.

jim
Hi Jim

No apology was neccessary. I agree with you on the subject - my post in facts states in capital letters what I think of flying into storms.
But the tone of the thread was , like Calle also mentioned, "stay out of TS's - no further discussion". The fact is in real flying there is no black or white when it comes to weather. Do I fly through building cumulus, towering cumulus? What if I inadvertently end up in a storm, be it from being ignorant, stubborn or through lack of planning?

We have had discussions about what to do if you inadvertently end up flying VFR into IF. Here we all agree - don't do it, like with TS's. Yet you had interesting ideas of trimming for best glide and folding your arms to stay alive. Why could we not have a similar discussion about storms. What can we manage and what not, and how to get out if you have transgressed, for whatever reason.

Cheers

Karl
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Re: Avcom losing valuable contributors.

Unread post by jimdavis » Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:47 pm

Thanks for clearing that up Karl. I am with you 100%. You were seeing it as two issues:

1. The wisdom (or lack thereof) of deliberately entering a thunderstorm.
2. How to handle the situation if you enter one accidentally.

I was only looking at the first.

Never having flown into one, I can only repeat stuff that I have read. I think it basically boils down to three things:

* Get your seat belt and shoulder harnesses as tight as possible.
* Gently turn for the shortest way out. But this goes against the advice to keep the wings level.
* Don't chase airspeed or altitude - simply try to maintain a level nose attitude.

Ernest Gann recommend lowering your seat and turning up cockpit lighting to max, to reduce the effects of lightening blindness. Also, turning off the auto-pilot and turning on all anti-icing equipment.

Im sure we would all love to hear more advice from folks who have been there and done that.

jim
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Re: Avcom losing valuable contributors.

Unread post by Fransw » Sun Feb 10, 2019 1:44 pm

87Juliet wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:14 pm
cage wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:47 pm

-I am no less full of <<moderated - language>> in person than I am online (though less misinterpreted in person)
I’ll gladly confirm this statement SirCage...

My name, phone number and place of work in my signature...

So my 2c, in this day and age there is this increasing idea that it’s critical to HAVE to say “something”, even if it’s waffle... personally I was taught that if I didn’t have anything meaningful to say or contribute to a conversation then I should shut my mouth and listen and perhaps I could learn something.

My instruction manual for life states in Proverbs 10:19 “When words are many, transgression is not absent, but he who restrains his lips is wise”.

As for the OP... #lipszipped
Are you working towards your next deal with "sirCage" 87? :lol: :oops:

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