Aspiring pilot's questions...

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Re: Aspiring pilot's questions...

Unread post by Jumbo2016 » Sat Mar 09, 2019 6:37 am

andycpl wrote:
Fri Mar 08, 2019 3:23 pm
Jumbo2016 wrote:
Fri Mar 08, 2019 12:30 pm
We were all there at some stage of our flying careers. Hard work, dedication and sometimes a bit of sacrifice goes a long way. There will always be milestones, the 500 on type, the 1500 and then the pic Jet time etc etc. There will also more than likely be some obstacles along the way, persevere and you will be fine.

Don’t instruct for the sake of building hours, instructors are meant to instruct if you know what I mean. Do your ATP subjects ASAP.

I resonate with your post, because I was there once. 10 years ago almost exactly to the day.

Good luck!
Why is it important to do ATP ASAP?

What did you do fresh out of flight school?
Because the longer you leave them the more difficult it is to get them. From what I’ve seen, the minute you end up on contract or manage to get into an airline (their requirements now are an ATP or at least all the subjects m) your time is consumed by work and very little time to get your subjects.

When I finished in Nov 2010 (at 28 years old)in Jan I did my instructors, March-May finished all my ATP subjects. It gives you one less thing to worry about, because if you want to end up in an airline, you will need your ATPL. I also know what it feels like being in an industry you don’t like, so Andy, grab the opportunity, look after your health and you will eventually get to where you want to be. And trust me, you will never work a day in your life again. 👍🏻👍🏻
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Re: Aspiring pilot's questions...

Unread post by cage » Sat Mar 09, 2019 8:04 am

andycpl wrote:
Fri Mar 08, 2019 3:20 pm
I said I'd be getting the loan from my father, he pays it off over 7 years, I pay him back gradually. I'm not directly borrowing from the bank, I'm borrowing from my father, who can more than afford the interest on a 7 year loan, but can't give me the cash I need to go to flight school upfront right now.
We all get dealt a hand and you have to make the most of it.
Seeking guidance, having realistic expectations and a plan is a great way to start.
Most tertiary qualifications will see you leave uni and be able to get a job that pays a reasonable salary upfront, as a newly minted pilot you won't so it is always best to have as little financial burden as possible.
If you can, find yourself some employment that you can do while training to help fund the journey, you may find that the process takes longer or you need money for other things.
Money in the bank provides options, debt limits them, so budget carefully and make sure to allow for the unexpected.

Pick a larger operator and let them know your intentions, if you live up to potential you may find that they will make a place for you.
Good luck and enjoy it.
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Re: Aspiring pilot's questions...

Unread post by lawotschkin » Sat Mar 09, 2019 8:57 am

.. taking a loan is like peeing in your pants - at first a warm relieve, then it gets cold and tight ..
The fact that you now have the freedom of choice is based on financial freedom - once you have that loan on your neck you are becomming the slave of a bank / an employer / your dad .. what happens if you figure out that flying for money actually sucks ?
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Re: Aspiring pilot's questions...

Unread post by Airwayfreak » Sat Mar 09, 2019 9:05 am

Plan for taking out further loans for ratings once you have completed your CPL. A fresh CPL with a PA30 on his licence is still unemployable to a large extent. Do not rush out and do B200 ratings etc until you have a signed contract of employment to fly such aircraft. Not everybody follows the same progression of PA30 - C208 - B200 - J41 - B737 - B 777 - A380. I know of several pilots that skipped the entire B200 range of aircraft and went straight onto medium turbo-props.

Prepare for several years of frustration, as somebody mentioned, there are always the next milestones to be reached in aviation and it doesn't stop.

Also, take advice from those that have actually walked this path. Avcom is fine but be aware that not all advice dispensed here is based on actual experience. With respect, some comments made are based on perceived expectations by those who have never walked the walk of shame in Maun for example. Listen to the old silverbacks like Jim instead.
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Re: Aspiring pilot's questions...

Unread post by southside » Sat Mar 09, 2019 12:29 pm

Take the loan and do it!
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Re: Aspiring pilot's questions...

Unread post by IKTAV » Sat Mar 09, 2019 2:31 pm

I concur with uncle Jim.
My old man also wanted me to get a stop gap qualification. Just in case. It was the ONLY time I didn’t follow his advice.
And fortunately so. Getting into aviation early had HUGE advantages. ie I wasn’t married. I was young enough to live rough on very little money, and I was mobile with none of responsibilities that would come later.
It also made me COMMITTED. There was no other option, but to succeed.
Today as an airline pilot and flight school owner I’m often asked to give career advice. So often that I wrote an article which is on the “career guidance” section of the Flight Training College website. www.flighttraining.co.za
There are also a few articles written for the aviation magazines over the years detailing the adventures and mishaps along the way to an airline career.
The worldwide shortage of pilots is REAL! Yes, it’s tough getting your first break in aviation. It’s like that for everyone! But there’s never been a better time to become a professional pilot.
So don’t concern yourself with the naysayers here. Seize the day!
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Re: Aspiring pilot's questions...

Unread post by SaraLima » Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:08 am

Airwayfreak wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2019 9:05 am
Prepare for several years of frustration, as somebody mentioned, there are always the next milestones to be reached in aviation and it doesn't stop.

Also, take advice from those that have actually walked this path. Avcom is fine but be aware that not all advice dispensed here is based on actual experience. With respect, some comments made are based on perceived expectations by those who have never walked the walk of shame in Maun for example. Listen to the old silverbacks like Jim instead.
Good advice AWF.. my +1 on that :smt045
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Re: Aspiring pilot's questions...

Unread post by Flymachine » Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:32 am

As many have said, be prepared to carry on spending well after qualifying as a commercial pilot. Get your ATP subject's done as soon as you can, I left mine for 3 years after getting my CPL and it was extremely difficult to get back into the books.

Everyone's career takes a different path, I know people who went straight from a fresh CPL onto a light turboprop, others who eventually threw in the towel, some who are lifelong instructors and some who are now in major airline's.

Nothing is guaranteed in any industry, I've been at it for 8 years since achieving my CPL and sit here unemployed. Of course life is full of choices, can I go back on contract...certainly...will I have a wife if I'm away from home for months and years again...certainly not.

Once again, everyone's careers take different paths. Around a quarter of the students I personally trained while instructing are now Boeing, Embraer and Airbus pilot's...2 are Captain's on the ERJ 135/145.
My Favourite Thing About People Is Their Dogs.

Humble professional seeking employment:
- SACAA ATPL Fixed Wing (2900 TT)
- Twin Turbine (1300 PIC, 600 on Medium Cat A/C)
- Instructor II
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Re: Aspiring pilot's questions...

Unread post by 340 » Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:53 am

AndyCPL,
There is no way to predict how your career in aviation will progress. If you do not have the appetite for financial risk (ie. loans etc. to get there), you will probably never become a career pilot. My son (with a little bit of help from myself) went this route. The opportunities that came around for him, from being a 220 hr pilot, till today was due him not being picky and choosy. He knocked on doors and drove thousands of kilometres to introduce himself to would be employers. He has always been employed (sometimes in some sh!thole places and sometimes as an instructor), but he flies a decent plane today with a decent salary after just 4 years. Just a word of advise: Every commentator on Avcom was born with 6000 flight hours and very few will recognise that starting out as pilot today has become a lot harder than it was 20 or 30 years ago.

There is just one determining factor on weather you will become a commercial pilot: How badly do you want it because it's not easy. Where there is a will, there is a way!
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Re: Aspiring pilot's questions...

Unread post by jimdavis » Mon Mar 11, 2019 8:09 am

340 wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:53 am
AndyCPL,
There is no way to predict how your career in aviation will progress. If you do not have the appetite for financial risk (ie. loans etc. to get there), you will probably never become a career pilot. My son (with a little bit of help from myself) went this route. The opportunities that came around for him, from being a 220 hr pilot, till today was due him not being picky and choosy. He knocked on doors and drove thousands of kilometres to introduce himself to would be employers. He has always been employed (sometimes in some sh!thole places and sometimes as an instructor), but he flies a decent plane today with a decent salary after just 4 years. Just a word of advise: Every commentator on Avcom was born with 6000 flight hours and very few will recognise that starting out as pilot today has become a lot harder than it was 20 or 30 years ago.

There is just one determining factor on weather you will become a commercial pilot: How badly do you want it because it's not easy. Where there is a will, there is a way!
I am with you 100% 340. If you are not prepared to make the sacrifices - you won't get there!

jim
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Re: Aspiring pilot's questions...

Unread post by HJK 414 » Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:25 pm

andycpl wrote:
Fri Mar 08, 2019 12:16 pm
Greetings,

I'm an aspiring pilot, about to get a loan to go to flight school to pursue my dream of being an airline pilot. I have a few questions that I'd appreciate any info on. I'm kind of struggling with how to assure my parent that'll be getting the loan for me that I'll get work after flight school, this will determine whether or not I actually get the loan, so any advice on how to put this to my parent would be appreciated.

I don't have money obviously, I thus can't go to a school like 43 Air School, it's simply too expensive. I intend on going to Madiba Bay School of Flight in Port Elizabeth, doing my CPL multi-engine and Instructors rating there. The loan will be a 7 year loan. Where can I start working fresh out of flight school? I'm open to flight instruction to build hours, I'm passionate about teaching and willing to work hard enough to actually know what I'd be doing and not just do it for hours. I've seen a few jobs in Central Africa looking for low hour pilots for Cessnas, how would one get to the required 500 hours for these jobs?

I know there will be hard grafting involved, I'm a hard worker and will do anything to achieve my dream, information from people in the know would be much appreciated.

Thank you.

Andy

I will have a go at the risk of duplicating what others stated.
You did not state your family situation - nor your age - and I gather that you are 5 years into a "profession" that you - with hindsight do not see as a vocation you wish to pursue.

Getting the CPL / Instructors rating (also the Multi engine ?? /you may wish to build some single hours first !) is step 1 and your parents are seemingly prepared to fund a part of that path.
You write - "how do I assure my parents that I will get a job" - short answer - you can not give that assurance ...... [-X
They need to be able to rely on your passion - on your input and preparedness to do what it takes.

I did the same for my son in law / he now flies a corporate jet / and his resolve was notice-able - so I stood as guarantor for the financing he needed to get where he wanted to be. (it took him 4 years to pay off the loan).

Getting to the 500 hours is a slog and you need to start (if not already) spending time at the airfield, and spread the word and your interest. Once you have a PPL (even single engine will do) you could start building some hours. Keeping your current job for a long as possible is advise-able.

Let me tell you a small portion of my own journey in the 70's.
I worked at Aero Sales (I was an appie Electrician / instrument tech at that time) on Rand and we had serviced a Beech Baron that belonged to Mr. Goudriaan - ZS-OTC - (OG's father). Oom Klaas (mr Goudriaan) was picking up his aircraft from Rand on a Saturday morning and I happened to be in the hangar with my old man. The aircraft had been outside on the apron the previous night and it had been very windy / it had rained and a lot of sand and muck was on the aircraft, especially the wings. My old man stated - "how in the world can we hand back an aircraft to a client in this way ?" - and I ended up filling buckets and washing the aircraft on the apron in front of the hangar.

Just before I was finished Oom Klaas and Timm Biggs turned up (iirc they came from Baragwanath / gliding hub) and they noticed me finalizing the cleaning of the aircraft. (you have to take note of the era - washing aircraft was then often outsourced to "other employees".). Timm Biggs asked what was going on and I explained that we felt that a client deserved to receive a clean aircraft back. Oom Klaas immediately asked whether I would like to join for the "test flight" and to my amazement they took me along on a flight over Walkerville - Vereeniging …… My first flight in twin piston - I will never forget it.

It is not a job you are chasing / it is a passion.
You write that you wish to be an airline pilot.
Perhaps a nice discussion with "driftwood" on the choices you have will give you some guidance / I would certainly advise you to have a serious look at flying smaller / freight / regional / corporate aircraft. I never went for the big bus route and have to say that I never regretted the choice. I simply felt that the passion was best served hand flying a King Air through the skies - and it never left me …..

I wish you all the luck in the world - chase your dream and never let anyone steer you in a different direction.

JK
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Re: Aspiring pilot's questions...

Unread post by crash » Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:35 pm

340 wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:53 am


Every commentator on Avcom was born with 6000 flight hours and very few will recognise that starting out as pilot today has become a lot harder than it was 20 or 30 years ago.

There is just one determining factor on weather you will become a commercial pilot: How badly do you want it because it's not easy. Where there is a will, there is a way!
True,

Some members act as if they have thousands of hours, and know it all.
340 is correct - it is a tough road.
But you will never find a better goal to pursue.

.
Chris R. Ashford

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