Assistance/Advice with aspiring teenager

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Re: Assistance/Advice with aspiring teenager

Unread post by cage » Sat Mar 09, 2019 7:18 pm

Bearcat wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2019 6:49 pm
cage wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2019 6:03 pm

Name recognition never hurts when your CV is in a pile of others, though I guess it could also be a disadvantage in some cases 8-[
Yea ... never mention the word Cage if you are looking for a heli job :lol: :lol:
There are a few other places I wouldn't mention it either :evil:
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Re: Assistance/Advice with aspiring teenager

Unread post by monkey pilot » Sun Mar 10, 2019 12:10 am

jimdavis wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:57 pm
MP, I am appalled at how often you mentioned networking and connections. I don't believe that these are nearly as important as doing a good job and getting a good reputation.

Of course he must keep his ear to the ground, and follow up on likely leads. And indeed luck plays a part, but string pulling has never played a part in my life, or that of any other pilot I know.

I am not being sarcastic MP, but has it really worked for you?

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Be careful with your assumption, did I say he must network and build connections for himself or let his father do all the work and pull strings?

He must do it himself, let me tell you straight up how would you know if a company is seeking certain staff at a certain time? Wait until a post is being advertised on Facebook or elsewhere or scan Avcom Jobs ons a hourly basis or mix within the aviation community try and meet everyone from the engineers & mechanics all the way to some chief pilots & pilots.

Answering your question

Reputation is extremely important but who has a great reputation straight out of flightschool

Reputation takes time to build
Experience is the same, but

If a company is in dire need of a pilot with low/high or specific hours or qualities, and this young man is in the know he could pick up on that.

Networking did work for me, no strings were pulled, I still had to do my utmost to get the interview but that was only the beginning from that moment forward I was questioned and observed for 8 excruciating months until the day that my chief pilot let me loose, since then nothing has changed he encouraged my aswell to network eventhough the pilot community in my current country is less than 40, it is still important to know what is happening in the industry and plan accordingly.
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Re: Assistance/Advice with aspiring teenager

Unread post by Arjan » Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:12 am

Guys, lets get back to the topic.

Ash3igh - The problem ultimately lies in the age. You obviously want him to start as early as possible, but quite often youngers change direction as time evolves.

Can I add a total different perspective? Let him join a gliding club. Gliding you can start at 14-15 years of age pending maturity. Now gliding is commonly refered to as 90% work, 10% fun but that 90% is ultimately also the best forming and learning he can do at that age. He will be amongst aviators where his passion, patience and dedication will be embraced and tested thoroughly.

He will pick up life skills that can be of great value to him for the rest of his life but you as fater will also have the opportunity to see how strong his passion is embedded in him.

Let him come for a flight in a glider , we will first wash, polish, check, push airplanes, preflight, plan, read the weather, run wings, fetch ropes, help others do the same... and then do the ultimate, we FLY , all of this in one day.

If he is an aviator in soul he would love love love it, specially at that age. If not he will return to his computer games and wait for you to find him a new direction in life....
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Re: Assistance/Advice with aspiring teenager

Unread post by Fransw » Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:19 am

Arjan wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:12 am
Guys, lets get back to the topic.

Ash3igh - The problem ultimately lies in the age. You obviously want him to start as early as possible, but quite often youngers change direction as time evolves.

Can I add a total different perspective? Let him join a gliding club. Gliding you can start at 14-15 years of age pending maturity. Now gliding is commonly refered to as 90% work, 10% fun but that 90% is ultimately also the best forming and learning he can do at that age. He will be amongst aviators where his passion, patience and dedication will be embraced and tested thoroughly.

He will pick up life skills that can be of great value to him for the rest of his life but you as fater will also have the opportunity to see how strong his passion is embedded in him.

Let him come for a flight in a glider , we will first wash, polish, check, push airplanes, preflight, plan, read the weather, run wings, fetch ropes, help others do the same... and then do the ultimate, we FLY , all of this in one day.

If he is an aviator in soul he would love love love it, specially at that age. If not he will return to his computer games and wait for you to find him a new direction in life....
This is the most sensible advice!

He's only 15, still a kid. Let him grow up in a glider club! Give him at least another 3 years before you do/invest anything else..
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Re: Assistance/Advice with aspiring teenager

Unread post by jimdavis » Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:32 am

=D> =D> =D> =D> =D>

Arjan and Frans you are both 100% correct. Gliding gives him the best possible start in learning basic aerodynamics, meteorology, and airmanship. He will get immersed in aviation and will either love or hate it. And it doesn't break the bank!

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Re: Assistance/Advice with aspiring teenager

Unread post by hugo_visser » Sun Mar 10, 2019 12:29 pm

My children lean to fly when 16 without them knowing what they wanted to do. The influence on their lives is dramatic. Even if they never fly again, it has opened doors and ended some of their tunnel vision of life. At a young age they can do things ( take charge and run a business) that I could not do at their age.
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Re: Assistance/Advice with aspiring teenager

Unread post by Cloudspeed » Tue Mar 12, 2019 12:08 am

Hi Ash3igh,

Hope you're still following your original post. And I hope you don’t mind the long story that follows.

A few years ago, I found myself in a similar position, but one that wasn't quite as neutral at the outset as yours. My daughter, facing her last few years in high school, introduced the notion of becoming a pilot. (like her dad)

The scenario I faced was whether to encourage her, show enthusiasm or just carry on neutrally. The latter was never going to be easy, encouragement was automatic and enthusiasm I couldn't hide, not that I wanted to. I was certainly mindful of not wanting to act subjectively.

However, there had to be a Litmus Test about her dedication since, if her intention was sincere and serious, I had already internally resolved to finance it as far as I could. So in her school holidays, we crunched the theoretical logistics of a PPL together, what academic input would be required on top of her high school requirements, what free time would be available to get herself to the flight school after school, would she be able to sit in ground-school for evening classes to fit in with the flight school's programme etc. She was hostel-based, so no home-support structure to fall back on.

Once all the logistics had been laid out in an achievable framework and a clear path was visible from enrolment to wings, I lobbed a small (litmus) wrench into the works. I insisted that she'd have to finish and pass all academic PPL subjects fist, before commencing with any flight training. This wasn't as easily achievable since the flight school wanted some connectivity between certain phases of flight training and steady academic progress. It would also have to happen during her rather critical Grade 11 & 12 years, in between school exams. But, I didn't budge.

We made an appointment with the CFI to discuss her potential enrolment considering "the proviso". The initial response was not encouraging. It would have to be discussed at a management meeting first as the potential was there that she'd battle with certain subjects without having aircraft or flying knowledge that may require additional and/or lengthy intervention by the ground school instructors. Spoon-feeding teenage, school-going students wasn't quite what they (or we) had in mind.

Finally, they came back with a qualified approval. An exception would be made as a test case. She could start, but if a situation developed where she couldn’t make the grade, her ground school would be suspended immediately. On the high school side, the same qualifier applied – if flight training degraded the school academic achievement in any way, she’d have to focus on school first and postpone flight training. With everyone on the same page, it now needed a “Tick in the box” from her. Tick! Without hesitation.

With her far away from home and hostel-based, I explained that none of the arrangements would be made by me. Not the permission to leave hostel and return late at night after ground school. Not the bookings and enrolment for ground school subjects and exams. Not flights. Not assistance with theory, study or exams. Nothing. She’d have to do it all on her own. I’d finance it, but that was my only part. It’s important to mention that we both had a good idea that she’d be able to manage this on her own and, I suspect, we both understood that it would take that and more to lay a strong enough foundation for her future in aviation.

Now, before this already long story gets much longer, the outcome is the real message I want to share with you. In the end, she batted each of the challenges over the fence, passed all her theory before her first flight, managed logistics of ground school, exams and flight training by herself and achieved her PPL in her Matric year. And passed that with a fist-full of distinctions! If it sounds like I’m showing off a little, I’ll concede. However, my sentiment is that the level at which she was required to perform to achieve her PPL and matric in this way, was invaluable and a wonderful opportunity and it will add to her toolkit when she has to venture out one day for interviews or contracts or whatever may come her way.

The final point is, before things fully commenced, we both had a reasonable handle on what would be required. I knew (or at least suspected) that she’d cope (and was much relieved when she did) and was happy for her to be “out there”, wing-ing it independently. I could only sense her early dedication and the path we designed and followed could in principle be exited at any point without risk or major effort having been wasted along the way.

I hope this adds to your impressions of your own way forward. It’s not for you to walk his path, but you can enlighten him about what he may encounter and together make a call.

Regards
CS
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Re: Assistance/Advice with aspiring teenager

Unread post by SaraLima » Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:06 am

Ash3igh wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2019 1:41 am

Several months ago I started a discussion with my 15 year son on what he would like to pursue / what his career interests are..Nothing light but a proper series of discussions and options....Not to bore you with the details and the lengthy time spent with him, but he has shown a keen interest in becoming a commercial pilot , hence the post.
Hi Ash3igh.. Your post struck a bit of a chord with me as I am currently mentoring a CPL student whose story might resonate with you.

1. He took his intro flight in a Glider at 12
2. Worked at an AMO every weekend from 12 years old
3. Signed up for a PPL on his 16th Birthday
4. Solo'd at 16
5. Got his PPL at 17 and is now well on his way towards his CPL.

All the while still busy with schoolwork.

He did NOT have a "daddy chequebook" to help him. - The only books he had (bought with his pocket money) were Jim Davis' PPL book, Dietlind Lempp's radio Handbook and "bummed" copies of assorted aviation magazines.

His name is Johan Walden and he is now also a columnist for S A Flyer Magazine where he is telling his story so that other keen young aviators like him, can get some of their questions answered "from the horse's mouth" so to speak. Check out his column .. its called "A Slim Logbook"

His first story, "Hooked" is in the February 2019 Issue and the second one, "Hangar Rat" is in the March 2019 issue of SA Flyer. I find his story fascinating and his dedication to overcoming the obstacles to becoming a pilot admirable and believe that he has a lesson for many aspirant young pilots.

I do suggest you grab copies of SA Flyer and let your son read the stories - at the very least, it will open some "real world" discussion for you and your son. And each month will have a new story.. first solo, solo nav, the dreaded test etc...

And as an aside to Jim - His wall is plastered with aircraft pics and he's been building aircraft models since he knew which end of a glue tube to open :wink: :lol:

All the best to your son, if he maintains his enthusiasm, he has a hard, but awesome career ahead of him.
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Re: Assistance/Advice with aspiring teenager

Unread post by jimdavis » Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:51 am

Cloudspeed wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 12:08 am
Hi Ash3igh,

Hope you're still following your original post. And I hope you don’t mind the long story that follows.

A few years ago, I found myself in a similar position, but one that wasn't quite as neutral at the outset as yours. My daughter, facing her last few years in high school, introduced the notion of becoming a pilot. (like her dad)

The scenario I faced was whether to encourage her, show enthusiasm or just carry on neutrally. The latter was never going to be easy, encouragement was automatic and enthusiasm I couldn't hide, not that I wanted to. I was certainly mindful of not wanting to act subjectively.

However, there had to be a Litmus Test about her dedication since, if her intention was sincere and serious, I had already internally resolved to finance it as far as I could. So in her school holidays, we crunched the theoretical logistics of a PPL together, what academic input would be required on top of her high school requirements, what free time would be available to get herself to the flight school after school, would she be able to sit in ground-school for evening classes to fit in with the flight school's programme etc. She was hostel-based, so no home-support structure to fall back on.

Once all the logistics had been laid out in an achievable framework and a clear path was visible from enrolment to wings, I lobbed a small (litmus) wrench into the works. I insisted that she'd have to finish and pass all academic PPL subjects fist, before commencing with any flight training. This wasn't as easily achievable since the flight school wanted some connectivity between certain phases of flight training and steady academic progress. It would also have to happen during her rather critical Grade 11 & 12 years, in between school exams. But, I didn't budge.

We made an appointment with the CFI to discuss her potential enrolment considering "the proviso". The initial response was not encouraging. It would have to be discussed at a management meeting first as the potential was there that she'd battle with certain subjects without having aircraft or flying knowledge that may require additional and/or lengthy intervention by the ground school instructors. Spoon-feeding teenage, school-going students wasn't quite what they (or we) had in mind.

Finally, they came back with a qualified approval. An exception would be made as a test case. She could start, but if a situation developed where she couldn’t make the grade, her ground school would be suspended immediately. On the high school side, the same qualifier applied – if flight training degraded the school academic achievement in any way, she’d have to focus on school first and postpone flight training. With everyone on the same page, it now needed a “Tick in the box” from her. Tick! Without hesitation.

With her far away from home and hostel-based, I explained that none of the arrangements would be made by me. Not the permission to leave hostel and return late at night after ground school. Not the bookings and enrolment for ground school subjects and exams. Not flights. Not assistance with theory, study or exams. Nothing. She’d have to do it all on her own. I’d finance it, but that was my only part. It’s important to mention that we both had a good idea that she’d be able to manage this on her own and, I suspect, we both understood that it would take that and more to lay a strong enough foundation for her future in aviation.

Now, before this already long story gets much longer, the outcome is the real message I want to share with you. In the end, she batted each of the challenges over the fence, passed all her theory before her first flight, managed logistics of ground school, exams and flight training by herself and achieved her PPL in her Matric year. And passed that with a fist-full of distinctions! If it sounds like I’m showing off a little, I’ll concede. However, my sentiment is that the level at which she was required to perform to achieve her PPL and matric in this way, was invaluable and a wonderful opportunity and it will add to her toolkit when she has to venture out one day for interviews or contracts or whatever may come her way.

The final point is, before things fully commenced, we both had a reasonable handle on what would be required. I knew (or at least suspected) that she’d cope (and was much relieved when she did) and was happy for her to be “out there”, wing-ing it independently. I could only sense her early dedication and the path we designed and followed could in principle be exited at any point without risk or major effort having been wasted along the way.

I hope this adds to your impressions of your own way forward. It’s not for you to walk his path, but you can enlighten him about what he may encounter and together make a call.

Regards
CS
WOW!!!! Cloudspeed, what a wonderful story. =D> =D> =D>

I have seen your daughter in a hundred classrooms and a thousand cockpits. She is not there because it is a bit of a joll and Daddy's paying - she is the one who is doing it out of love and passion and determination. She is every instructor's dream.

And in my opinion you couldn't have done a better job as a father. I am sure you are immensely proud of her - and it sounds as if she will continue to give you reasons to be proud of her for the next 100 years :lol: =D> =D>

How about a photo in the "My Heart is Bursting With Pride" thread?

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Re: Assistance/Advice with aspiring teenager

Unread post by hugo_visser » Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:53 pm

Give him time, help him with his ppl. If he wants to fly, good, If he does not want to fly, good. In the meantime you have helped him to better himself for the future. He does not have to decide now, he is young. I did not have aviation photos all over my room, I had showjumping photos all over,and now, aviation mad.
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Re: Assistance/Advice with aspiring teenager

Unread post by Cloudspeed » Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:18 pm

I have seen your daughter in a hundred classrooms ....
Jim, you've obviously been there when your own kids achieved their dreams and it's one of life's most precious gifts. The most fantastic journey really. Flight Instructors have the chance (many in fact) to be integral in such moments and in that sense, so many "hour builders" are missing the magic of their profession. (different topic but ...)

Indeed and to the OP, Love, Passion and Determination. Help your son find and develop those aspects and, should they align with aviation, there's not much prodding you'd need to do for him to tick his own box before you know it :wink:

Regards
CS
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Re: Assistance/Advice with aspiring teenager

Unread post by Bodumatau » Wed Mar 13, 2019 5:21 pm

Arjan wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:12 am
Guys, lets get back to the topic.

Ash3igh - The problem ultimately lies in the age. You obviously want him to start as early as possible, but quite often youngers change direction as time evolves.

Can I add a total different perspective? Let him join a gliding club. Gliding you can start at 14-15 years of age pending maturity. Now gliding is commonly refered to as 90% work, 10% fun but that 90% is ultimately also the best forming and learning he can do at that age. He will be amongst aviators where his passion, patience and dedication will be embraced and tested thoroughly.

He will pick up life skills that can be of great value to him for the rest of his life but you as fater will also have the opportunity to see how strong his passion is embedded in him.

Let him come for a flight in a glider , we will first wash, polish, check, push airplanes, preflight, plan, read the weather, run wings, fetch ropes, help others do the same... and then do the ultimate, we FLY , all of this in one day.

If he is an aviator in soul he would love love love it, specially at that age. If not he will return to his computer games and wait for you to find him a new direction in life....
Arjan you hit the nail on the head, if he can stick out his gliders licence then he will continue.
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Re: Assistance/Advice with aspiring teenager

Unread post by Ash3igh » Tue Mar 19, 2019 1:05 pm

Thank you to each of you for your input, negative or positive ...the underlying fundamental is that we are all passionate about the same thing and your individual experience and different view points comes from your story , your understanding of what will work and what wont. Put together, this provides someone like me with a better view on what i need to do moving forward.
I also want to THANK those that have offered help by way of a chat or an actual experience, I am back on Wednesday and will be making use of the extension....

15 is not that young gentlemen and ladies. The world we live in today is different from the one we lived in 2 - 3 years ago. The millennial's are smarter, possess higher cognition, have more access to information across the world and within their DNA lies the ability to grasp new concepts and technology that people our age would battle with.

Although the flip side could be that it is dependent on maturity and the thought process behind making decisions, a bit bold for me to say, but parents will know if their kids are a bit dim or bright.

I do not posses copious amounts of wealth , nor call myself wealthy. I am part of the middle class and have to plan , make cuts etc to make this possible for him. I would not have made the inquiry if i didnt feel he was serious, wont be dedicated and see it through. I can only ever provide the foundation and whatever is passed from generation to generation wrt to passion - determination etc, if he builds a 1 bedroom house on that or his own Shangri La is dependent on him.
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