Are Kit planes worth it ?

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Rooster
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Re: Are Kit planes worth it ?

Unread post by Rooster » Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:18 pm

It's about what you really need.
No-one needs an sti with 915 engine.
One also only needs a Garmin g5 and engine guages in a kitfox, and the fancy stuff that I see in safaris and others is not necessary.
With patience, the right one at the right price comes along.
If a dog is grinning, it may not be happy!
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Re: Are Kit planes worth it ?

Unread post by Flooi » Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:13 pm

Unless you really need 4 seats...Why punish yourself with TCA?
If you are want to fly with 12 lit per hour with a range of more
than 10 hours with tons of luggage space.... professional yearly ATF and
maintenance a drop compared to TCA MPI’s...... why TCA?..
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Re: Are Kit planes worth it ?

Unread post by KZNChris » Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:32 pm

Here is an interesting take -- from across the waters

https://generalaviationnews.com/2016/02 ... st-flight/

Read the comments

There are numerous 150 , 170 , pipers that are twice the aircraft at a cost of 10k to 18k sitting, wasting away

The likelihood that a lot of potential aviators could afford even the increased price of a 30+ year old Cessna 150 is pretty good. Anything out there now that is new or close to new that qualifies as a LSA / S-LSA is priced out of the reach of most of us.
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Re: Are Kit planes worth it ?

Unread post by Flooi » Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:49 pm

KZNChris wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:32 pm
Here is an interesting take -- from across the waters

https://generalaviationnews.com/2016/02 ... st-flight/

Read the comments

There are numerous 150 , 170 , pipers that are twice the aircraft at a cost of 10k to 18k sitting, wasting away

The likelihood that a lot of potential aviators could afford even the increased price of a 30+ year old Cessna 150 is pretty good. Anything out there now that is new or close to new that qualifies as a LSA / S-LSA is priced out of the reach of most of us.
You are 100% right, BUT there are far cheaper... and reliable ... options. My TCA aircraft were well cared for,
well maintained and spotless, but many years old. With one, I had incessant radio problems and each time, a
trip to Wonderboom and and and. Cost me a small fortune. Eventually replaced it.

Most factory built NTCA late models are reliable if correctly maintained. I have done my homework carefully
on this one. As they say: horses for courses. Sometimes a good 210 is needed. Other times a Sling 2 will do.
For me.... I love my LSA. I must add: prefer factory built!

I can do from the Reef to Tempe MAUW using only 25 lit fuel - albeit not a rocket... 100 knots in comfort...
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Re: Are Kit planes worth it ?

Unread post by Johan Swakopmund » Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:44 pm

Oompie Sarra
jy is heeltemal korek met die uur bou storie.
Pilotto wat wil ure bou doen dit vir n com en ja ure en so veel tipes as moonlik is n moet
Ek het my swak uitgespreek.
Wat ek eintlik bedoel , as jy die dag jou ppl in die hand het en jy wil vlieg vir lekkerte of sommer net
koop n vliegtuigie of muggie.
Moenie probeer bou nie en dan vlieg nie.
Teen die tyd dat die bouwerk klaar is moet jy voor begin leer vlieg.
groete en stuur reen asb
Dit is droewig droog ons kant

Johan
NAMIBIA FLYING COUNTRY
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Re: Are Kit planes worth it ?

Unread post by SaraLima » Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:09 pm

Johan Swakopmund wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:44 pm
Oompie Sarra
jy is heeltemal korek met die uur bou storie.
Pilotto wat wil ure bou doen dit vir n com en ja ure en so veel tipes as moonlik is n moet
Ek het my swak uitgespreek.
Wat ek eintlik bedoel , as jy die dag jou ppl in die hand het en jy wil vlieg vir lekkerte of sommer net
koop n vliegtuigie of muggie.
Moenie probeer bou nie en dan vlieg nie.
Teen die tyd dat die bouwerk klaar is moet jy voor begin leer vlieg.
groete en stuur reen asb
Dit is droewig droog ons kant

Johan
Neef Johan.. reen is op pad, nou net met my "contacts" gereel :smt023
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Re: Are Kit planes worth it ?

Unread post by Mrb13676 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:34 pm

I think the other thing that gets left out in these discussions is the practicalities of building a kit.

Some of us have zero mechanical ability, no space to build, no understanding spouse and no budget to rent/maintain a TCA while building the dream kit.

In my mind, I’d love to build a Carbon cub or an RV-8. But I know that when it comes time when I only need 2 seats, I’m going to be getting one that someone else or a factory has built.

I’m really impressed by anyone who has successfully completed a kit build...
Mike
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Re: Are Kit planes worth it ?

Unread post by Johan Swakopmund » Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:58 pm

Hi Mike i am constantly chirping in -
As we live at the coast you cannot leave anything outside because of rust.
I tried to take say a wing home to work on evenings. Cars rusting outside.
Tired , gatvol for Zuma, not tonight , will do painting tomorrow night.
It just do not work that way.
Ask guys building out of garages, it is a big issue for the missus and yourself as the parts grow,
the garden get neglected . Ma want some painting to be done and need attention !!!!
I have a small hanger of my own of 14 x 10 m and now built a store room of 4 x 4 m without
window to keep the night staff out.
Even this area is cramped if you have the two wings , the fuselage , the elevator etc all on trestles.
Then you need some storage space for finished parts and parts to be done.
Ad a compressor and some electrical tools which your squatter friend all need.
That is why i hoisted my KR wings into the roof - fuselage to be removed before you can start working etc.
Yes it is absolutely a must to sort your own ( or hire cheap ) a workshop / hangar for min 2 years before even
considering building or restoring.

Johan
NAMIBIA FLYING COUNTRY
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Re: Are Kit planes worth it ?

Unread post by heinrich » Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:01 pm

KZNChris wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:32 pm
Here is an interesting take -- from across the waters

https://generalaviationnews.com/2016/02 ... st-flight/

Read the comments

There are numerous 150 , 170 , pipers that are twice the aircraft at a cost of 10k to 18k sitting, wasting away

The likelihood that a lot of potential aviators could afford even the increased price of a 30+ year old Cessna 150 is pretty good. Anything out there now that is new or close to new that qualifies as a LSA / S-LSA is priced out of the reach of most of us.
Well over in the UK the opposite is true. The demand for "flight school workhorses" like the 150/152 and 172 means they still go for insane (for those who want to buy :twisted: ) prices.

Put this 7000 hour 152 in your pipe and smoke it...for £45 000 :shock: :shock:
https://afors.com/aircraftView/45755

I'm sure it'll sell for close to that.

So if I am in the market for a 2 seater, and have about £50k floating in my bank account, I'm definitely not going to go TCA like this yellow old timer. There are some very nice "permit" (NTCA equivalent) aircraft for far less, and far more capable than this, and I'll have maintenance and fuel money left to spare.
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Re: Are Kit planes worth it ?

Unread post by KZNChris » Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:33 pm

heinrich wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:01 pm
Well over in the UK the opposite is true. The demand for "flight school workhorses" like the 150/152 and 172 means they still go for insane (for those who want to buy :twisted: ) prices.

Put this 7000 hour 152 in your pipe and smoke it...for £45 000 :shock: :shock:
https://afors.com/aircraftView/45755

I'm sure it'll sell for close to that.

So if I am in the market for a 2 seater, and have about £50k floating in my bank account, I'm definitely not going to go TCA like this yellow old timer. There are some very nice "permit" (NTCA equivalent) aircraft for far less, and far more capable than this, and I'll have maintenance and fuel money left to spare.
I think that the idea was , that when the weight restriction of LSA is increased , some TC aircraft will fall into this category
Which should -- IF I understand correctly make flying them a lot more affordable

Seems you should be buying this type of neglected and fading away aircraft from the US
Could be some bucks in it ?
UK LOT closer to US than SA .... ( you could even crate it and put it in a -- BOEING :twisted: )
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Re: Are Kit planes worth it ?

Unread post by heinrich » Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:16 pm

KZNChris wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:33 pm
heinrich wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:01 pm
Well over in the UK the opposite is true. The demand for "flight school workhorses" like the 150/152 and 172 means they still go for insane (for those who want to buy :twisted: ) prices.

Put this 7000 hour 152 in your pipe and smoke it...for £45 000 :shock: :shock:
https://afors.com/aircraftView/45755

I'm sure it'll sell for close to that.

So if I am in the market for a 2 seater, and have about £50k floating in my bank account, I'm definitely not going to go TCA like this yellow old timer. There are some very nice "permit" (NTCA equivalent) aircraft for far less, and far more capable than this, and I'll have maintenance and fuel money left to spare.
I think that the idea was , that when the weight restriction of LSA is increased , some TC aircraft will fall into this category
Which should -- IF I understand correctly make flying them a lot more affordable

Seems you should be buying this type of neglected and fading away aircraft from the US
Could be some bucks in it ?
UK LOT closer to US than SA .... ( you could even crate it and put it in a -- BOEING :twisted: )
I seriously considered it a while ago, but I must admit the gremlins that can hide in some of these "bargains" in the US has me worried. If I'm not mistaken not all of them have to comply with ADs and SBs right? But UK and SA CAAs want them all up to date before registering?

I even had my eye on a 235 in SA a few months back, but after doing the sums on a new 8.33 radio(mandatory), mode S transponder(pretty much mandatory from my airfield), new CofA, export and cost of getting it here, it was suddenly not so cheap anymore. :?

I guess as a stable training platform, that's pretty much depreciated all it can, a 150 or 152 makes sense for a flight school. For someone wanting 2 seat personal transport, I'm not so sure.
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Re: Are Kit planes worth it ?

Unread post by KZNChris » Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:34 pm

heinrich wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:16 pm
I seriously considered it a while ago, but I must admit the gremlins that can hide in some of these "bargains" in the US has me worried. If I'm not mistaken not all of them have to comply with ADs and SBs right? But UK and SA CAAs want them all up to date before registering?
Those who are not risk averse ( and have very clever honest and knowledgeable friends ) find "bargains" a worthwhile pursuit.
Some win some lose -- their money -- and sometimes their "shirt"
Nothing ventured nothing gained
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Re: Are Kit planes worth it ?

Unread post by Orthin Opter » Sun Mar 17, 2019 2:19 pm

heinrich wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:16 pm
I seriously considered it a while ago, but I must admit the gremlins that can hide in some of these "bargains" in the US has me worried. If I'm not mistaken not all of them have to comply with ADs and SBs right?
Wrong. AD's are issued by the guvmint, therefore compulsory. In the US the SBs (bulletins) are optional if not engaged in commercial activity. Some SBs are plain dumb (6 fuel drains in long range tanks of cessnas) and some a damm good idea.

Oh Chris to answer your original post (heading). YES.
"All great truths begin as blasphemies." George Bernard Shaw.
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Re: Are Kit planes worth it ?

Unread post by KZNChris » Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:10 pm

Orthin Opter wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 2:19 pm
Oh Chris to answer your original post (heading). YES.
Thank you
My original question was really a question of -- finance
In terms of a comparison between having an old TC -- in the weeds gathering dust ( and corrosion ) BUT affordable AND ready to fly
( after removing the weeds and dust :shock: )
or
A kit plane ( experimental or LSA ) that SHOULD cost substantially less than a TC ( for the reasons mentioned above )

It would appear -- and I do not have a record of ALL plane sales in SA for 2018 with figures of money that changed hands
THAT
Kit Planes ( the kits ) are MORE expensive than an already built TC ( old but still flying war-horse )

Hopefully someone can find / dig out the figures for ALL aircraft sold / traded / scrapped IN SA for 2018 .........
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Re: Are Kit planes worth it ?

Unread post by Orthin Opter » Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:52 pm

KZNChris wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:10 pm
Kit Planes ( the kits ) are MORE expensive than an already built TC ( old but still flying war-horse )
Perhaps, but the market is influenced by supply and demand, bang-for-the-buck and economy of operation. You choose where you will spend your hard earned bucks. Save today and spend the bucks annually to keep an 'old warhorse going" or spend the bucks today, fly and maintain economically. You choose.
"All great truths begin as blasphemies." George Bernard Shaw.

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