Help please: Airworthiness Category

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Help please: Airworthiness Category

Unread post by fgerber » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:26 am

Hi All,

I don't know if this has been asked before - if so, apologies.

I am new to aviation and looking at buying an aircraft for training and hour-building, but not RAASA or the CAA can tell me whether the aircraft was registered as a microlight or as a LSA. I need a LSA for hour-building.

On the 'Approved Flight Manual' (2002) of the particular aircraft I am looking at it says - Airworthiness Category: Sport Aviation.

I don't know if that is maybe a clue as to what it is registered as? Another aircraft of the same make lists NTCA as the category. I am hoping someone with knowledge of the older documentation and can advise me.

Thanks in advance,
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Re: Help please: Airworthiness Category

Unread post by flysouth » Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:38 pm

That is odd - since there has never to my knowledge of the LS1 rules (pre-NTCA) been such an official category as "Sport Aviation".

Had there been such a category available as a choice, I would have registered my Grumman AA1A in 1986 into that category and I examined the conditions for all categories available - "sport aviation" was not one I could have chosen as it did not exist.

As to LSA I cannot comment as I have little detailed knowledge of that category.
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Re: Help please: Airworthiness Category

Unread post by homebuilt » Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:47 pm

Somewhere in the CAA documents (I think it is in the CATS and CARS) is a list of all the criteria for LSA aircraft. That is weight limit, speed limits, amount of fuel, it must be fixed undercarriage and fixed prop and many more. Someone here on this forum will be able to point you in the right direction but my advice would be to get hold of this criteria and compare the specs of the aircraft that you want to buy and make sure first that it fits into the category of LSA.
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Re: Help please: Airworthiness Category

Unread post by heisan » Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:01 pm

I always thought there must be some sort of indication on the registration/ATF documents what class the aircraft is, but I could never find any. Was also no option on any of the forms when I registered my homebuilt.

As far as I know, it is up to the pilot to verify the class of aircraft. For LSA the spec is:
16. LIGHT SPORT AEROPLANES
16.1 Design standards
Non-type certificated light sport aeroplanes shall meet the design criteria of either amateur-built aircraft or production built aircraft.

16.2 Classification parameters
(1) For an aeroplane to be classified as a light aeroplane, the following parameters need to be met:
(a) Maximum gross take-off mass of:
(i) 600 kilograms for land planes;
(ii) 650kg for amphibian and sea planes.
(b) Maximum stall speed with no flaps deployed at MAUW 45 knots;
(c) Maximum speed in level flight maximum continuous power 150 knots;
(d) Two place maximum;
(e) Single, non-turbine engine;
(f) Unpressurised cabin.
(2) For the purpose of establishing conformity with sub-paragraph (1) (a), the following payloads are to be included:
(a) 80 kilograms per seat;
(b) Full fuel tank or 40kg (whichever is greater);
(c) Luggage mass as specified by the manufacturer;
(d) Safety rescue system if one is fitted;
(e) All standard and additional equipment and systems as fitted.
The trickiest of these is subpart (2) - which basically limits the empty weight (at least 200kg, but generally more, below MAUW).

For example, Jabiru J2xx aircraft have a restriction fitted to the fuel tank to limit max fuel weight to keep it within LSA limits.
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Re: Help please: Airworthiness Category

Unread post by ABW » Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:55 pm

This is on the SA CAA website. Worth studying. You might find your answer.

http://www.caa.co.za/Documents/Airworth ... 202015.pdf
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Re: Help please: Airworthiness Category

Unread post by Avgas » Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:01 pm

What aircraft is it?
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Re: Help please: Airworthiness Category

Unread post by fgerber » Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:57 am

Hi ABW,

Thanks, I will go take a look at that link.

Avgas, it is a X-Air Standard (no flaps). Below is the POH details (relevant ones as I understand), as received from the manufacturer in Australia:

https://www.xair.com.au/aircraft_models/xair/xair.html

Maximum all up weight permitted : 490 kg
Empty weight : 230 kg
VNE : 145 km/h (IAS)
Maximum engine revs : 7000 rpm
Maximum revs in constant utilisation : : 6200 rpm
CG range: refer to weight & balance schedule
Maximum cross wind component : 20 km/h
Minimum flying speed : 55 Km/h (CAS)
Maximum speed, level flight : 120 Km/h "
Turbulent air best speed : 70 Km/h "
Economic cruise speed : 90 Km/h "
Stall speed : 45 Km/h "
Endurance with 60 l fuel tank : 3 ¾ h

Another question is - does it matter what it is registered as, microlight or LSA, or just that it meets the specifications of a LSA, as Heisan alluded to? No one at the CAA wants to commit to an answer. I don't want to buy the X-Air, do the hours and then be told afterwards sorry, only half the hours (and up to a max of 100) count towards the CPL.

If any more information is needed please let me know, don't want to paste the whole POH here.

Thanks everyone, appreciate the help!!
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Re: Help please: Airworthiness Category

Unread post by HJK 414 » Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:12 am

X-air.jpg

One of these ??

JK
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Re: Help please: Airworthiness Category

Unread post by fgerber » Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:15 am

That's it exactly!
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Re: Help please: Airworthiness Category

Unread post by HJK 414 » Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:19 am

fgerber wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:15 am
That's it exactly!
Frans

What are you trying to achieve ?
A toy to hop around in ? - or hour building to go into a flying career ?

And what do you need to pay for that aircraft ?
(new ? - and you need to assemble ??)

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Re: Help please: Airworthiness Category

Unread post by fgerber » Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:58 am

Well I've always wanted to fly, but also want to leave the option open of maybe doing my CPL one day. So I am looking at the cheapest way of getting in the air while accomplishing both - not a rich man.

I know prospective employers will look at what I have flown, so will still fly Cessna's etc. in between, do hours on other planes, night-rating, instrument-rating and multi-engine rating, but want to do a big chunk of the hours on my own plane. So therefor want a plane that the hours will count 1:1, i.e. 1 hour flown will count 1 hour towards my potential CPL.
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Re: Help please: Airworthiness Category

Unread post by HJK 414 » Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:14 am

fgerber wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:58 am
Well I've always wanted to fly, but also want to leave the option open of maybe doing my CPL one day. So I am looking at the cheapest way of getting in the air while accomplishing both - not a rich man.

I know prospective employers will look at what I have flown, so will still fly Cessna's etc. in between, do hours on other planes, night-rating, instrument-rating and multi-engine rating, but want to do a big chunk of the hours on my own plane. So therefor want a plane that the hours will count 1:1, i.e. 1 hour flown will count 1 hour towards my potential CPL.

Frans

Why not a Cessna 152 or a similar low wing Piper ?
You can buy a 152 for around 20 - 23 Grand US$ - have it shipped for another 2 Grand $
Why mess around with LSA's then ?

JK
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Re: Help please: Airworthiness Category

Unread post by fgerber » Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:08 pm

Well if I do my training and maybe decide NOT to carry on with the CPL, then it's a bit overkill. Then I'd prefer an LSA. Don't want to sit with a Cessna then.
I'd rather start small and upgrade as I go along.
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Re: Help please: Airworthiness Category

Unread post by heisan » Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:17 pm

fgerber wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:57 am
Hi ABW,

Thanks, I will go take a look at that link.

Avgas, it is a X-Air Standard (no flaps). Below is the POH details (relevant ones as I understand), as received from the manufacturer in Australia:

https://www.xair.com.au/aircraft_models/xair/xair.html

Maximum all up weight permitted : 490 kg
Empty weight : 230 kg
VNE : 145 km/h (IAS)
Maximum engine revs : 7000 rpm
Maximum revs in constant utilisation : : 6200 rpm
CG range: refer to weight & balance schedule
Maximum cross wind component : 20 km/h
Minimum flying speed : 55 Km/h (CAS)
Maximum speed, level flight : 120 Km/h "
Turbulent air best speed : 70 Km/h "
Economic cruise speed : 90 Km/h "
Stall speed : 45 Km/h "
Endurance with 60 l fuel tank : 3 ¾ h

Another question is - does it matter what it is registered as, microlight or LSA, or just that it meets the specifications of a LSA, as Heisan alluded to? No one at the CAA wants to commit to an answer. I don't want to buy the X-Air, do the hours and then be told afterwards sorry, only half the hours (and up to a max of 100) count towards the CPL.

If any more information is needed please let me know, don't want to paste the whole POH here.

Thanks everyone, appreciate the help!!
If it is registered in South Africa as a microlight, it will have a 450kg MAUW (updated in AFM and on registration certificate). Otherwise it will be an LSA with a 490kg MAUW.

When last I looked, there were only hour restrictions (for higher licenses) on aircraft wtih 450kg (or lower) MAUW.

So you need to see how the aircraft was registered (450kg or 490kg MAUW) to see which it is, and how many hours will count.

In theory it is possible to change one previously registered as 450kg to 490kg, but it will be some fun paperwork.
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Re: Help please: Airworthiness Category

Unread post by fgerber » Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:07 pm

Thanks Justin.

I was just phoned by the CAA, seems because of the instruments (or lack thereof) it can't be used for hour-building......
So that settles it for me if that is the case....... :(
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