Cessna adds inspections for aging aircraft

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Re: Cessna adds inspections for aging aircraft

Unread post by Morphius » Mon Jan 13, 2014 10:26 am

Just an update on SID's for other Cessna owners,

We performed the SID's on our C182 during its MPI last year and did all the SID's except for anything interior, for R20 000. I do not think that it was too bad. The interior SID, that actually will require carpets to be lifted will be performed later in this year when AMO is more quiet.
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Re: Cessna adds inspections for aging aircraft

Unread post by dilligaf » Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:46 pm

Has anyone had the SID inspection done for 150-series aircraft, and can you share any info re what the inspection effort cost ?
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Re: Cessna adds inspections for aging aircraft

Unread post by Pete » Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:36 pm

dilligaf wrote:Has anyone had the SID inspection done for 150-series aircraft, and can you share any info re what the inspection effort cost ?
I have posted this on an earlier thread but Cessna in their highly detailed Powerpoint presentation (I made it downloadable here from my Dropbox https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/101 ... l_doc.ppsx ) says if the aircraft is tidy it should not take more than 10 hours of labour and form part of the annual for a 100 series, as it is primarily a visual inspection.

See also viewtopic.php?f=1&t=100684&hilit=dropbox

Some folk are using the SID to make their annual fortunes on one inspection.. :shock: the only problem is that they are killing the goose that lays the golden egg, and the way it is going we will be extinct sooner than later. :evil:
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Re: Cessna adds inspections for aging aircraft

Unread post by dilligaf » Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:40 pm

Thanks Pete :)
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Re: Cessna adds inspections for aging aircraft

Unread post by FlyingFinn » Wed Feb 12, 2014 2:04 pm

kosie wrote:
Cornell Blok wrote:Any news on this from AOPA ?
At this stage we are of the opinion that it is not mandatory for Part 91. If you think you will get an answer from CAA, then you are in for a mild surprise. After all, the entire CAA is toothless at the moment. There is no legally appointed DCA and as such they can not act. The term anarchy comes to mind. If you operate under Part 135, liability may compel you to do the SIDS. If you decide to do it, you will be well advised to shop around. One AMO quoted R140 000 and another eventually did the job for less than R20 000.
We need a strong, fair and just CAA.
We have a Part 91 aircraft which we wish to maintain under Part 91.
And the CATS language that deals with Part 91 AD and SI compliance is real clear to me.
It says that "compliance with ANY SB, SL, SI or other service information shall be at the discretion of the aircraft's owner"
So there the intent of the legal norm was clearly to give the choice to a Part 91 operator.

What I have discovered during dealing with our AMO (and for their defense it must be said that they just want to stay legal and avoid fines as I would want to do as well) and also talking to the CAA is that the CAA airworthiness department does not recognize this right to choose as soon as the word mandatory appears in the text.
The stand they are taking (in the name of safety) is that if the word "mandatory" appears in the Service Information document then the compliance can no longer be at the discretion of the a/c owner.

That effectively kills the intent of the legislator who wrote it in the norm that a Part 91 owner must be given a choice.

Now, what is the practical way forward, is there an existing Part 91 culture available at all for those of us who wish to review the Service Information, review the risk of non-compliance, and then make their own choice.

I would welcome any constructive input and would not want to see attacks on any ones intelligence and so on...

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Re: Cessna adds inspections for aging aircraft

Unread post by Pete » Sat Feb 15, 2014 6:20 am

Markku, you are quite correct saying that SB's SI's are at the owners discretion in part 91 operation, it is provided for in our regulations.
Just because the manufacturer makes the bulletin "mandatory" does not give them judicial powers.
A regulating authority like our CAA however, may make a specific SB or SI mandatory (e.g. Lycoming SI1009 engine TBO or Robinson R44 bladder tank SB78).

I have attached a letter from the FAA that details their point of view on manufacturers making SB's, SI's etc. mandatory.
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Re: Cessna adds inspections for aging aircraft

Unread post by FlyingFinn » Sat Feb 15, 2014 12:09 pm

Pete wrote:Markku, you are quite correct saying that SB's SI's are at the owners discretion in part 91 operation, it is provided for in our regulations.

And this is where I seem to have hit a brick wall.
Despite of my efforts, including consultation with the SACAA airworthiness department on the very issue to let us maintain our Part 91 a/c as the SA regulations do provide for, they are pushing back and effectively ignoring that we have a Part 91 legislation in effect.


Just because the manufacturer makes the bulletin "mandatory" does not give them judicial powers.
In my case this is my point exactly, they say the word "mandatory" makes it mandatory also for Part91.
A regulating authority like our CAA however, may make a specific SB or SI mandatory (e.g. Lycoming SI1009 engine TBO or Robinson R44 bladder tank SB78).
And on the case of the aging Cessna SID's they have not published such instructions. (at least not for now)

I have attached a letter from the FAA that details their point of view on manufacturers making SB's, SI's etc. mandatory.
Thanks Pete, this is issue has also been well discussed in the CPA forums and clearly in the US the Part 91 operators do get the AMO's to respect the FAA's instructions, like this one.

My challenge remains one of getting our AMO's to respect our Part 91 wishes to not comply with such service instructions which we as owners do not wish to comply with as provided to us under SA "law".

What I witness is the AMO's being required (by the CAA inspectors) to comply with the SID's when the word "mandatory" appears even when it is clear that Part91 "rules" should apply.

It appears that the CAA / AMO - axis is ignoring the existence of the Part 91 regulations and the fact that they are different from Part 135.

So, what I would want to achieve is to get CAA - AMO relationship be such that they would respect the Part 91 regulations, just as they respect the Part 135 regulations.

Cheers
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Re: Cessna adds inspections for aging aircraft

Unread post by Cornell Blok » Fri Feb 21, 2014 7:03 am

Ok so how does this work if the plane is used for part 91 we don't have to do it ?
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Re: Cessna adds inspections for aging aircraft

Unread post by SparkBerry » Thu Jun 26, 2014 2:51 pm

The SID' are revisions added to the Cessna Maintenance Manual and does not form part of any SB, SI or SL. AMO's are by law obliged to follow to the applicable manufacturers inspection schedules and unfortunately the SID's form part of these schedules. The notion that the SID's can be viewed along with SB's/SI's/SL's and ignored under part 91 is baseless. As such, all SID on aging 100 series Cessnas needs to be completed by 30 June 2014. Even though most AMO's disagree with the implementation of SID's, they are forced to comply with them.

I as one works closely with all the above documents have looked for loopholes for owners, but it boils down to this one fact, if one ignores the SID's, then we may just as well ignore the entire manufacturers maintenance manual... And for aviators this would be putting lives in jeopardy in an industry where safety is not an option.
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Re: Cessna adds inspections for aging aircraft

Unread post by dilligaf » Mon Jul 07, 2014 9:40 pm

So, how many Cessnas are still flying ?
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Re: Cessna adds inspections for aging aircraft

Unread post by FlyingFinn » Thu Jul 24, 2014 7:37 pm

"The SID' are revisions added to the Cessna Maintenance Manual and does not form part of any SB, SI or SL. AMO's are by law obliged to follow to the applicable manufacturers inspection schedules and unfortunately the SID's form part of these schedules. The notion that the SID's can be viewed along with SB's/SI's/SL's and ignored under part 91 is baseless."

Thank you,

This now finally makes regulatory sense as well to me.

I so wish that the head of the department at the CAA could have uttered it as clearly to me when I phoned her and tried to ask for clarity.
Also would help if the AMO's had this understood, it would help them as they need to explain to the owner the "why" lot's of money needs to spend on their immaculate bird.

Cheers
Markku

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