Creating scenery of active airforce bases

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cvdm
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Creating scenery of active airforce bases

Unread post by cvdm » Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:54 pm

I heard many years back that it was actually not legal to distribute scenery of active airforce bases for various security reasons.

Is this still the case?

I have been re-doing FASK and FAWK with a lot of information readily available from Google Earth's 3D view. Is it still a no-no or may one actually attempt showing off this without some black cars pulling up to your driveway?
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Re: Creating scenery of active airforce bases

Unread post by csparksfly » Thu Feb 21, 2019 1:02 pm

Interesting questions, but it appears few really know.

I found others asking similar questions in the MG :wink:
Waterkloof not listed
As Justice Minister Jeff Radebe claimed in 2013, the Waterkloof Air Force Base is not listed (nor is any other military base), even though the ANC was convinced it was a key point, according to a statement the party issued in the wake of the Guptagate affair.
Do you want to be first to try it out ? :lol:
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cvdm
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Re: Creating scenery of active airforce bases

Unread post by cvdm » Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:42 pm

[/quote]

Do you want to be first to try it out ? :lol:
[/quote]

I am always up for a challenge :lol:

Not sure how government would manage "key point" photo disclosures when you can take Google Earth and zoom down to minute detail of any one of the listed "key points". That would place it in public domain.

Maybe I should get all my data first before we take a stab at this. Would not be surprised if someone decide to try and block those tiles from showing up on GE.

Anyway, we shoot FASK to pieces on any airshow day. No way you can restrict or police the amount of images showing control towers and the like.

Maybe someone like Dean can join in at some point with a view. I know Johan van Wyk used to feel strongly against trying this with his Airforce background no doubt to vouch for it.

Anyway, I am still working on a few things, let's hear what others think.
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Re: Creating scenery of active airforce bases

Unread post by snoopy » Wed Feb 27, 2019 1:53 pm

King Shaka International Airport has an Air Force base on it...its been done for flightsim.
Ysterplaat in detail by AeroworxSA.
Langebaan, TFDC as well...and so on...

Google Earth blew the lid off a lot of things...including many NKPs. AFBs are not on the National KP list, their outlay is charted (Aerodrome Charts) and publicly made available by the state (unclassified), and these fields are often used for as possible diversion fields. :idea:

What is never obvious from flight sim scenery - is whats where; in which building in reality ...
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cvdm
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Re: Creating scenery of active airforce bases

Unread post by cvdm » Wed Feb 27, 2019 9:41 pm

Thanks snoopy, I think you answered it for me. All systems go for FASK then.

FAWK next.
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Re: Creating scenery of active airforce bases

Unread post by Johan van Wyk » Fri Mar 01, 2019 10:34 am

This is not the place to ask questions like this, neither is this the place to get the correct answers. Ignorance of the law excuses no one...

Ysterplaat and Waterkloof were done with proper permission and mainly for the AAD's, with a strict guideline on to what was allowed to be included as well as the detail. The same applies to Ysterplaat/Swartkops for being the SAAF Museum bases.
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Re: Creating scenery of active airforce bases

Unread post by Cornell Blok » Sat Mar 02, 2019 7:01 am

Johan van Wyk wrote:
Fri Mar 01, 2019 10:34 am
This is not the place to ask questions like this, neither is this the place to get the correct answers. Ignorance of the law excuses no one...
Sheeez the guy was just asking a question #-o
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Re: Creating scenery of active airforce bases

Unread post by snoopy » Sat Mar 02, 2019 9:39 am

If you commercially want to distribute it - you have to do your own due diligence. Apply your own mind...

Many other developers have designed and distributed scenery of Air Force Bases...and its still being distributed. So its obviously possible to do.

For example AFB Ysterplaat, AFB Swartkop (FASK) and AFB Waterkloof Airports (FAWK) Air Force Base Pietersburg was done by Aeroworx as early as 2005. And a detailed fuel refinery north of Cape Town was done by them in 2008.

Private airports belong to private owners, its also developed for FS, and distributed, municipal fields and ACSA fields also. Your negotiation between the owner and yourself as developer is up to you. :wink:

Maybe ask NMG and others if they had permission from ACSA to do FACT in detail for example.

All that said, if I found you walking around with a camera photographing every building inside an Air Force base's security area when I was in the SAAF. I most likely would have arrested you on the spot, and confiscated your camera, if you didn't have permission from CAF. :wink:

AFCADs etc you can make without doing that, and then do the rest with creative imagination from Sat images, to work out positions and sizes of buildings.
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Re: Creating scenery of active airforce bases

Unread post by Johan van Wyk » Sat Mar 02, 2019 11:02 am

Cornell Blok wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2019 7:01 am
Johan van Wyk wrote:
Fri Mar 01, 2019 10:34 am
This is not the place to ask questions like this, neither is this the place to get the correct answers. Ignorance of the law excuses no one...
Sheeez the guy was just asking a question #-o
This was just a friendly warning. I have done this, got the t-shirt...
"When people move up in the world into X-Plane they will get the 'moving from high school into paid work' feeling and we who have been here for a while will get deja vu."... AND NO BUGS IN THE SDK!

Johan van Wyk
cvdm
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Re: Creating scenery of active airforce bases

Unread post by cvdm » Sun Mar 03, 2019 11:50 pm

Johan van Wyk wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2019 11:02 am
Cornell Blok wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2019 7:01 am
Johan van Wyk wrote:
Fri Mar 01, 2019 10:34 am
This is not the place to ask questions like this, neither is this the place to get the correct answers. Ignorance of the law excuses no one...
Sheeez the guy was just asking a question #-o
This was just a friendly warning. I have done this, got the t-shirt...
I do recall Johan had previous concerns around doing this and with his background I tend to listen when he speaks.

Interesting to note that special permission was given for the old FAWK and FASK scenery done.

Still wonder how this law will treat what you see when you zoom into any air base with 3d buildings selected in Google Earth. The detail of what is usually behind walls is sufficient to accurately place it into scenery.

And since all national airports are now classified, it could mean that no SA scenery may be released (free or paid) without some Government approval!! Wonder if NMG followed any similar process.

Any way, think I got my answer, thanks guys!
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Re: Creating scenery of active airforce bases

Unread post by Johan van Wyk » Mon Mar 04, 2019 7:56 pm

The photograph you took may not be illegal, but what you do with it afterwards is what can plunge you into trouble. The same applies for scenery or models...

Follow the proper channels, make a presentation to the people concerned and they WILL give you permission to do an airport. You will walk out with proper written permission and with a thorough guideline of what you may and may not do. This is true for Military, Civilian and Private Airports. They may even get the Fire Chief to drive you around to take some pictures.

Snoopy, Aeroworx did not do Air Force Base Pietersburg...
"When people move up in the world into X-Plane they will get the 'moving from high school into paid work' feeling and we who have been here for a while will get deja vu."... AND NO BUGS IN THE SDK!

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Re: Creating scenery of active airforce bases

Unread post by cvdm » Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:59 pm

Thanks Johan, sounds like good advice.

I would appreciate it if someone in the know could PM me contact details for whom to contact at Swartkops to explore formal approval.

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