Most cost effective homebuild?

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heinrich
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Re: Most cost effective homebuild?

Unread post by heinrich » Thu Dec 30, 2010 4:00 pm

Posted this on a new thread. Should have thrown it in here, might get a better response?



Anyone know anything about this one. Looks pretty much exactly like the tandem airbike.

http://jordanlakeaero.com/duo.html

Anyone in SA building one or imported the airframe kit? Nice to see it's still alive and kicking, even after those german okes stopped selling plans for the airbike.
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Re: Most cost effective homebuild?

Unread post by Glenne » Tue Jan 04, 2011 3:43 pm

heinrich wrote:I can throw in another "new-ish" design single seater that seems to be quite popular in the States and UK: Thatcher CX4. Also all metal with VW upfront.

Don't think many are being built in SA at the moment but it it a very nice airplane. Teenie 2 is out for me. I sat in one at Springs and I'm too tall for it so that means some work to change canopy if it can be done. I also like the VP1 and have seen the one fly at Barag but that is a "different" kettle of fish with open cockpit and pretty slow aerie. But given the $$ and space to build I'd go for CX4 all week. But Johann's post a while ago about building single seat is also very true. It's nice to share...

That being said I've seen a fantastic Druine Turbulent in the UK at Headcorn once and that is a beaut. But isn't that the one with the box spar that is apparently a nightmare to construct?? Noel?
The Thatcher CX4 looks fantastic! I want one. Was interested in a teenie but I am 2m tall and this appears to be a problem with the teenie. I want a single seater aircraft which is aerobatic. Must find out more re this aircraft. It may just be the thing as I dont want to spend my life building. I want to fly!
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Re: Most cost effective homebuild?

Unread post by heinrich » Tue Jan 04, 2011 3:58 pm

Teenie is def not for you then. I sat in one at Springs a while ago and canopy barely closed, without headsets... (I'm 1.90m, 6.2-ish in old money I think.)

Don't think you would fit in teenie either, unless canopy is non-standard.

The CX4 looks great but damn, that single seat....
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Re: Most cost effective homebuild?

Unread post by Glenne » Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:56 am

The single seat does not bother me. I enjoy flying alone at times and when I want company I have other options. The big question for me is the aerobatic capability. I dont want it for competition aerobatics or the airshow circuit but I enjoy aeros on weekends. The crosscountry capability plus basic aerobatics plus easy build (relative I suppose) is perfect for me. A Pitts cross country is a lot of work.
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Re: Most cost effective homebuild?

Unread post by heinrich » Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:10 pm

From what I read on the cx4 yahoo group the guys are saying it's one of the easier sheetmetal aircraft to build. Could be a relative term as it depends on your skills I guess but some have built before and can obviously compare it to other aircraft. I'd build one at the drop of a hat but like said before space/time/$$ big issue for me for now. Like you say, you can always rent if you need more seats...
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Re: Most cost effective homebuild?

Unread post by Glenne » Wed Jan 05, 2011 1:59 pm

Heinrich where are you based? I am in Kempton and if I go ahead with this project you would be welcome to drop in any time. I really like the looks of this aircraft and it seems to offer what I need. I wonder if there are other builders of the Thatcher in SA and specifically in the Gauteng area?
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Re: Most cost effective homebuild?

Unread post by heinrich » Wed Jan 05, 2011 2:16 pm

Hi Glenne,

I'm in Roodepoort so the "other" side of town but would love to come and have a look-see if/when you start the build. IIRC there is a build going on PTA (Dave Grovener???) but so far avdex only shows 1 cx4 flying in SA. Think it's based at FASH but don't quote me.

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Re: Most cost effective homebuild?

Unread post by dale » Sun Jan 09, 2011 4:33 pm

Nut Behind The Wheel wrote:Having read "Oldtimers" post and his decision to change direction with his project due to financial issues, it got me thinking about what would be the most cost effective way for a homebuilder to realise his dream to build and fly? I know that aviation is not a low budget based pastime/hobby but what would probably be the best option? Obviously there would be factors to take into account like what construction materials would be prefferable i.e: Rag n tube, wood or ally. What engine option would be the most logical and affordable? VW? Everything would be based upon cost and effective application. Any thoughts on type (VP1/2, Piet n pol, KR2 etc) would be appreciated. Your opinions guys?
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Re: Most cost effective homebuild?

Unread post by Tony4 » Tue Jan 18, 2011 8:17 pm

Hi, I believe the problem was only related to the XL and although I am no accident investigator, I think this was a matter of VNE. 'Very Nice Ethyl, let me show you how fast I can go'...... type of thing, if you get my slip indicator. As for the baby raven, good little plane, [of course, being copied from the best... :twisted: ] it still has the old wing profile and spar, so no problem there, and no speed either... sigh. And maybe you could just look in the 'for sale' section. Then buy one for hassle free flying. No builder's remorse, no bitching wife.....
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Re: Most cost effective homebuild?

Unread post by Big Will » Wed Feb 02, 2011 12:51 pm

Glenne wrote:Heinrich where are you based? I am in Kempton and if I go ahead with this project you would be welcome to drop in any time. I really like the looks of this aircraft and it seems to offer what I need. I wonder if there are other builders of the Thatcher in SA and specifically in the Gauteng area?
Have a look on the builders list on Thatcher's website - there are a couple of others being built is SA.
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Re: Most cost effective homebuild?

Unread post by Scotsman » Wed Feb 02, 2011 8:09 pm

Hi Tony, the Zodiac XL problem was attributed to flutter below VNE arguably generated by improperly tensioned aileron cables/unbalanced ailerons causing the control surface to oscillate at a frequency divergent to that of the natural frequency of the wing thus causing catastrophic failure. The LAA/NTSB/FAA grounded the entire Zodiac "fleet" in their respective countries until an upgrade was designed by Zenith to combat the flutter issue.

About a year odd ago now the upgrade package was released including but not limited to aileron mass balance arms (internal), strengthened rear and main spar in the wings, strengthed rear spar attach points and main carry through spar, additions of internal stringers to the wings...etc etc. The upgrade package is arguably overkill as the mass balance arms would inhibit (within the flight envelope) the principal cause of the issue but I am glad to have and be installing the entire package.

Since the mandatory upgrade there have been no structural failures in a year and a bit (previously we had about three or four a year). I personally believe that the causal factor has been mitigated in the upgrade package. If anyone is interested I have accrued nauseating amounts of literature and testing material on the subject.
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Re: Most cost effective homebuild?

Unread post by RudiGreyling » Thu Feb 03, 2011 8:50 am

Nut Behind The Wheel wrote:Having read "Oldtimers" post and his decision to change direction with his project due to financial issues, it got me thinking about what would be the most cost effective way for a homebuilder to realise his dream to build and fly? I know that aviation is not a low budget based pastime/hobby but what would probably be the best option? Obviously there would be factors to take into account like what construction materials would be prefferable i.e: Rag n tube, wood or ally. What engine option would be the most logical and affordable? VW? Everything would be based upon cost and effective application. Any thoughts on type (VP1/2, Piet n pol, KR2 etc) would be appreciated. Your opinions guys?
Sorry I need to give you a Reality Check and out the box thinking!

Sorry but I see too many dreams wither over time. 17 year projects amounting to nothing but waisted time and money, and finally ending up on a scrap heap.

I remember EAA stats show that less than 3% of people starting plans build (scratch build) are successful in flying in the end.Those stats also showed that less than 10% of people starting kit builds finish and flying in the end. Some kits are more successful than others due to support, so I guess the RV line is about 33% completion rate.

So the most effective home build is one that will get you in the sky sooner rather than later.

The best option is to get a group together, pool your money, pool your resources, and buy a modern advanced kit and everything required outright. That is the most cost effective, but you must be willing to share...

my 2c

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Re: Most cost effective homebuild?

Unread post by George » Thu Feb 03, 2011 8:53 am

Have to agree with Rudi.

There are plenty cases in USA (locally JAD team have now built 4 RV's between them) where a "team" built the first aerie and then all the members ended up building their own, but when questioned they all said they would never have finished it on their own. Building alone is a very hard road...
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Re: Most cost effective homebuild?

Unread post by Nut Behind The Wheel » Thu Feb 03, 2011 8:58 am

I seriously believe that Rudi is 100% correct here. After all my investigations and web crawling, the team build thing really looks like the right thing to do. If one member drops out it's not a train smash, they can be replaced by another willing participant! I also believe that once this has been done as a team, the confidence and know how there after is far better to proceed with your own project.
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Re: Most cost effective homebuild?

Unread post by RudiGreyling » Thu Feb 03, 2011 11:18 am

Nut Behind The Wheel wrote:I seriously believe that Rudi is 100% correct here. After all my investigations and web crawling, the team build thing really looks like the right thing to do. If one member drops out it's not a train smash, they can be replaced by another willing participant! I also believe that once this has been done as a team, the confidence and know how there after is far better to proceed with your own project.
PS: Yes and you have something to fly while you start to build your own next project which can take you years. At EAA meeting recently only 2 out of 15 members were current pilots. Isn't flying the primary end goal in any case?
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