Ceconite & Dopes

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Ceconite & Dopes

Unread post by ludie du plessis » Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:39 pm

Good day

I'm looking for where I can purcase Ceconite, tapes, Nitrate / Butrate dopes, for a reasonable price.

Thanks

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Re: Ceconite & Dopes

Unread post by ROLAND » Thu Dec 01, 2011 6:29 am

Good day

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Re: Ceconite & Dopes

Unread post by noelotten » Thu Dec 01, 2011 7:07 pm

ludie du plessis wrote:Good day

I'm looking for where I can purcase Ceconite, tapes, Nitrate / Butrate dopes, for a reasonable price.
Ludie du Plessis
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What is this for? A microlight?
If it is what weight of fabric do you want? 2,7 oz or can you use 1,7 oz?
Then ..... why do you want to use Nitrate and Butyrate dopes on Ceconite? That's like putting wooden wheels on a Porche!

Noel
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Re: Ceconite & Dopes

Unread post by Hansgiant » Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:09 pm

Noelotten wrote
why do you want to use Nitrate and Butyrate dopes on Ceconite? That's like putting wooden wheels on a Porche
Pardon my ignorance but what does one use in place of Nitrate and Butyrate dope? Surely if the fabric is not sealed with these 2 compounds the paint applied will just peel off?

When rebuilding a Cubby we used many layers of Nitrate and Buytrate followed by a layer of aluminum paste followed by 2k with plasticeser mixed into it. We had the most fabulous finish that would not peel off.

Looking forward to the response here.

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Re: Ceconite & Dopes

Unread post by noelotten » Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:34 pm

Hansgiant wrote:Noelotten wrote
why do you want to use Nitrate and Butyrate dopes on Ceconite? That's like putting wooden wheels on a Porche
Pardon my ignorance but what does one use in place of Nitrate and Butyrate dope? ...............................

.............. Looking forward to the response here.

Hans the giant
In a nutshell ...... Nitrate and Butyrate dopes were intended to be used with 'natural' fibres .... viz. 'cotton'!
'Ceconite', 'Polyfibre', 'Razorback', 'Superflite', etc., etc. are all synthetic fibres! They are polyesters, nylons, glass, etc.

The problem using Butyrate especially is that it does not adhere very well to the synthetic fabrics but it gives a better finish than does the 'Nitrate' dope and it is safer to use and more environmentally friendly. But Nitrate adheres better to the synthetic fibres. Nitrate is therefore used to 'prime' the synthetic fibres for the application of the Butyrate dopes.

Both the Nitrate and Butyrate dopes were also the primary means of 'taughtening-up' the 'natural' fabrics. The synthetic fabrics are 'taughtened-up' by the application of 'heat'. Either by ironing or with a hot-air blower.

The 'dopes' and paints developed for use with the synthetic fabrics are far superior as regards their adhesive qualities. Some manufacturers, (Superflite for example), have developed a 'one step' product. Less paint is used, and the sealing properties are excellent!

And ..... repairs to the fabric when using the synthetic dopes/paints is easy!

If you are covering with cotton, use Nitrate / Butyrate! If you are covering with synthetics ..... Use compatible synthetic dopes and paints!

Noel
The words "cheap", "aviation" and "safe" cannot, in my opinion, be used in the same sentence; not unless you add the word "not"! ... John Howse 1947 - 2010
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Re: Ceconite & Dopes

Unread post by Theuns v V » Sat Dec 10, 2011 8:09 pm

I do this kind of thing for a living and the best advice I can give someone it to stick to the instructions or manual of a particular system!
It is correct that "modern" polly-ester systems like Ceconite /Super flight (under correction) and Pollifiber (my personal favourate) get their main structural taughtness from shrinking the fabric using a calibrated iron, NOT A HEAT GUN!!!

Pollyfiber gets all it's strength from the heat and the coatings ontop it basically to protect and seal the fabric.

With Ceconite you are (acording to the manual) only allowed to shrink to a specific temp (250 degF IIRC) as the dope will shrink it some more, even though you are supose to use the so-called Non-taughtinig dope, it will still shrink a bit over time.
If you use normal taughtning dope it may well destort a lightweight frame.

Another thing guys do is to as you say put on 2K to give it a nice shine. Even if you put in loads of plastesizer it will still start to crack and get "spider webs" after some time as the plastesizer leaches out.
The paint over the fabric starts to come off and you need to recover the plane, although the fabric may well still test to be good. Repairs are also a headache to do over 2k.

But to awnser your question, if you want Ceconite and all the stuff that goes with it, chat to Placo at Rand.
For Pollifiber chat to Commet aviation at Rand and for Superflight chat to Noel.If you do any of these 3 correctly you can't go wrong!

There are however much more easy and modern stuff like Pollyfiber or Superflight if you want to stick with certified systems, I do.
A no-certified system made here in JHB has cost me loads of $ to repair

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Re: Ceconite & Dopes

Unread post by Multirotordronepilot » Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:58 am

Theuns v V wrote:
Sat Dec 10, 2011 8:09 pm
I do this kind of thing for a living and the best advice I can give someone it to stick to the instructions or manual of a particular system!
It is correct that "modern" polly-ester systems like Ceconite /Super flight (under correction) and Pollifiber (my personal favourate) get their main structural taughtness from shrinking the fabric using a calibrated iron, NOT A HEAT GUN!!!

Pollyfiber gets all it's strength from the heat and the coatings ontop it basically to protect and seal the fabric.

With Ceconite you are (acording to the manual) only allowed to shrink to a specific temp (250 degF IIRC) as the dope will shrink it some more, even though you are supose to use the so-called Non-taughtinig dope, it will still shrink a bit over time.
If you use normal taughtning dope it may well destort a lightweight frame.

Another thing guys do is to as you say put on 2K to give it a nice shine. Even if you put in loads of plastesizer it will still start to crack and get "spider webs" after some time as the plastesizer leaches out.
The paint over the fabric starts to come off and you need to recover the plane, although the fabric may well still test to be good. Repairs are also a headache to do over 2k.

But to awnser your question, if you want Ceconite and all the stuff that goes with it, chat to Placo at Rand.
For Pollifiber chat to Commet aviation at Rand and for Superflight chat to Noel.If you do any of these 3 correctly you can't go wrong!

There are however much more easy and modern stuff like Pollyfiber or Superflight if you want to stick with certified systems, I do.
A no-certified system made here in JHB has cost me loads of $ to repair

Theuns
Come out to BarraGee one day and I will show you what I am talking about.
Theuns , if we talk Ceconite specifically then what would you advise is the best adhesive and coatings to apply ?
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Re: Ceconite & Dopes

Unread post by Theuns v V » Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:58 am

If you want to follow the STC then new superseam cement is the best glue to attatch it to the frame. Do not thin it to get pretty seams. just it as it comes out the tin, that is how it was designed to be used.

To put tapes to the fabric 50/50 thinned nitrate dope is the best way (again this is the STC)

For sealing the fabric, UV protection and colour I sugest dope, it is painfully expensive but for the intended use its the best and remains flexable the longest.

I have seem some SAAF ere harvards that have not been painted with 2k but natural silver dope on the tails way back in the 90's still and they remain flexable to this day.

T

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