Aviators take note of the SAWS Amendment Draft Bill

South African Weather Service.

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Aviators take note of the SAWS Amendment Draft Bill

Unread post by ZS1I » Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:11 pm

Thanks to Karen Sales for bringing the South African Weather Service Amendment Draft Bill to my attention. A quick glance at the bill reflect some major changes. The 30 day comment period has already lapsed and is it now to late for written comments to the Minister of Water and Environmental Affairs. Comments received after the closing date may not be considered.

A copy of the bill is available at: http://www.pmg.org.za/files/bills/110406weatherbill.pdf

It would appear from a quick glance that if this bill is passed that it could have a detrimental effect on the future existence of private weather organizations in South Africa.
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Re: Aviators take note of the SAWS Amendment Draft Bill

Unread post by ZS1I » Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:33 am

I received the following information yesterday regarding the SAWS Amendment Bill - ZS1I


Dear weather forecaster or forecast user

I am not sure if you have heard about the new weather service amendment bill which will have far reaching consequences for everyone in the weather business, including forecasters and end users of any weather warning.
Part of the proposed legislation is to make it a crime with a punishment of up to R5 million and/or 10 years in jail to issue any air quality or weather related warnings without the written consent of the South African weather service..
Needless to say this goes to the core of my business as well as anyone else in the weather business as well as the various climate departments etc, It also puts us all at a disadvantage to all the foreign companies who will continue without this requirement. This is all in addition to the anti-competitiveness of this where one commercial organization will be able to dictate to us what we may or may not tell our clients.
Furthermore the ramifications seem endless, strictly interpreted a fleet manager warning his vessels of a storm that he has found on an internet weather site could also be engaging in a crime. An institution doing climate forecasts indicating a drought in a region could also be undertaking criminal activity. Several metro's measure air quality and thus any warning based upon these measurements could also be constituted as criminal activity. Finally pubic warnings by disaster management of rescue services could also be constituted as illegal activity.
This bill has not been widely publicized and so please pass this message on to any affected parties and encourage them to make submissions.
I am trying to contact as many role players as possible to make submissions on the bill before the 12th January 2012 and would appreciate your assistance in this regard.

Regards

Jean-Pierre
Oceanography and Meteorology
Ocean Satellite Imaging Systems


Link to article

http://www.businessday.co.za/articles/C ... ?id=161731

Link to Parliamentary working group

http://www.pmg.org.za/node/30128
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Re: Aviators take note of the SAWS Amendment Draft Bill

Unread post by tanglefoot » Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:17 pm

ZS1I wrote:I received the following information yesterday regarding the SAWS Amendment Bill - ZS1I


Dear weather forecaster or forecast user

I am not sure if you have heard about the new weather service amendment bill which will have far reaching consequences for everyone in the weather business, including forecasters and end users of any weather warning.
Part of the proposed legislation is to make it a crime with a punishment of up to R5 million and/or 10 years in jail to issue any air quality or weather related warnings without the written consent of the South African weather service..
Needless to say this goes to the core of my business as well as anyone else in the weather business as well as the various climate departments etc, It also puts us all at a disadvantage to all the foreign companies who will continue without this requirement. This is all in addition to the anti-competitiveness of this where one commercial organization will be able to dictate to us what we may or may not tell our clients.
Furthermore the ramifications seem endless, strictly interpreted a fleet manager warning his vessels of a storm that he has found on an internet weather site could also be engaging in a crime. An institution doing climate forecasts indicating a drought in a region could also be undertaking criminal activity. Several metro's measure air quality and thus any warning based upon these measurements could also be constituted as criminal activity. Finally pubic warnings by disaster management of rescue services could also be constituted as illegal activity.
This bill has not been widely publicized and so please pass this message on to any affected parties and encourage them to make submissions.
I am trying to contact as many role players as possible to make submissions on the bill before the 12th January 2012 and would appreciate your assistance in this regard.

Regards

Jean-Pierre
Oceanography and Meteorology
Ocean Satellite Imaging Systems


Link to article

http://www.businessday.co.za/articles/C ... ?id=161731

Link to Parliamentary working group

http://www.pmg.org.za/node/30128
So,

If I say that the sun is going to shine, even if it isn't (which is not a warning) then I am ok but if I say that it is going to rain (which IS a warning) then I can go to jail (I don't have R5m) :? Sounds like we are in for some really good weather on ETV #-o
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Re: Aviators take note of the SAWS Amendment Draft Bill

Unread post by FAPE » Fri Jan 06, 2012 7:52 pm

ETV is a good example of the restrictions on weather warnings.

In their case the housewife's type of warnings apply. They will state "The SA Weather Service has issued a warning for... (e.g. heavy seas, high fire danger rating, gale force winds, heavy thunderstorms, humid and uncomfortable conditions, heavy rain etc.)

When the weather service and its counterparts overseas talk about warnings, then they refer to specific warnings as agreed apon by WMO (world MET organisation), ICAO etc. In aviation, the warnings that they will refer to will include:

TS, Mountain waves, Icing, mountain obscuration, low visibility, turbulence, broken cloud, etc. In short these warnings will include Airmet warnings, aerodrome warnings and other details which appear on significant weather charts.

That is all. The weather service is not attempting to prevent private individuals to run their own websites. It is just looking at official warning messages - not general flying weather like rain, cloud etc.

If I was to resign and work as an independent forecaster, I may not issue such warnings. I would need to access SAWS' official warnings and add it to my data which I disseminate to clients, exacly as ETV is doing.

One must not forget that the resolution and frequency of the SAWS satellite data as well as the RADAR products available to its forecasters, places the forecasters in a better position to issue warnings than any individual in SA outside of SAWS.

The government must have control over such issues. Otherwise we will have disaster management issue weather warnings while they are not equipped or experience to do so. the same holds for aviation forecasts. One cannot have 5 websites independently issuing weather warnings bases on data and equipment that is not ICAO certified.

Independently run automatic weather stations and websites displaying such data is another issue worth mentioning as these stations do not necessarily fall under a recognised body for its maintainance and calibration.

I hope this adds value to this post.
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Re: Aviators take note of the SAWS Amendment Draft Bill

Unread post by Rotor kop » Sat Jan 07, 2012 9:13 am

As usual FAPE you contribute well =D> =D> =D>
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Re: Aviators take note of the SAWS Amendment Draft Bill

Unread post by ClearBlu » Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:32 pm

I'm not sure about the exact setup here in the US, but we can get extremely detailed weather information, including warnings of severe weather, from a myriad of different sources. Most of these sources obtain their weather from NOAA though. They reformat the presentation, and 'enhance' the value of their particular product with various add-on or related products, such as a flight planning tool or similar.

Is there, or might there be, an option for independent operators in SA to do something similar, including warnings, under 'licence' of SAWS?
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Re: Aviators take note of the SAWS Amendment Draft Bill

Unread post by tanglefoot » Thu Jan 12, 2012 3:16 pm

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/ ... l-20120112
A new clause would also allow a court to compensate the weather service for any monetary advantage the accused would have gained from a relevant offence.

"Perhaps the Weather Service sees this as a potential new income stream for itself," Morgan said.
Now THERE's an idea :idea: Obviously selling weather on a website isn't working so well. Much easier to sue someone else for trying to do SAWS's job........
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Re: Aviators take note of the SAWS Amendment Draft Bill

Unread post by tanglefoot » Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:02 pm

FAPE wrote:.......The government must have control over such issues. ................
Deon,

After much deliberation I must tell you that I totally disagree with you on this point. The government's function is to facilitate and support. They do not have the skill to control (or they wouldn't have to appoint consultants :idea: )

if SAWS took their job seriously they would concentrate on supporting private initiative instead of wasting MY money on greedy self absorbed consultants.
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Re: Aviators take note of the SAWS Amendment Draft Bill

Unread post by OtherSelkon » Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:07 pm

Hopefully this works in reciprocal. If I cancel a flight for a warning they issue and they get it wrong, can I sue them for 5 Million or lock up the forecaster for 10 years.

What a load of bull. They can go play in the traffic. This would never stand up in court. I am entitled to voice an opinion regarding the weather.
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