License expired

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Cenrifugel
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License expired

Unread post by Cenrifugel » Fri Dec 22, 2017 11:13 am

Hi, can someone help me with this. My ATPL has an expiry date of 2019, however my last flight test and IF renewal was in May 2014. In order for me to renew my license do i just do a medical and flight test or am I required to sit an airlaw exam.

Thank you for your time
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Re: License expired

Unread post by Fireitup » Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:12 am

Hi CF,

Not quite in the same boat as you but my situation may be able to give you some help.

I held an ATPL issued in 2009 and my last renewal was done in 2010 or so and have not filed anything since then. As it has been explained to me...as my license has lapsed for more than 60 months then I have to write Law & Ops Procedures again and conduct a skills test.

In your case, I would imagine you could just do renewal and medical and should be OK?

Aviation Assist has been very helpful and will file applications for exams and renewals on my behalf, I can recommend them for any assistance and perhaps they can better answer their questions.

Cheers.
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Re: License expired

Unread post by heisan » Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:28 am

Maintenance of competency for an ATPL(A)
61.07.7 (1) The holder of an ATPL(A) shall undergo a revalidation check within a period of 12 months calculated from—
(a)the date of reissue; or
(b)the beginning of the month following the date of—
(i)expiry of the maintenance of competency if such maintenance of competency is revalidated within 90 days immediately prior to expiry; or
(ii)revalidation of such maintenance of competency if revalidated prior to the period referred to in subparagraph (i).

(2) The holder of an ATPL(A) who has not maintained competency by passing a revalidation check or an initial licence skills test in the same category of aircraft within the 24 months following the issue or revalidation of such licence shall comply with the following requirements—
(a)in the case of a holder of an ATPL where the maintenance of competency has lapsed by not more than 36 months, the licence holder shall be required to—
(i)undergo sufficient ground and flight training at an approved ATO to reach the standard required for the revalidation check of an ATPL(A), and meet the recency requirements to act as PIC; and
(ii)pass a revalidation check in the same category of aircraft;

(b)in the case of a holder of an ATPL where the maintenance of competency has lapsed by more than 36 months, the licence holder shall be required to—
(i)rewrite the Air Law and Procedures examination;
(ii)undergo sufficient ground and flight training at an approved ATO to reach the standard required for the revalidation check of an ATPL(A), and meet the recency requirements to act as PIC; and
(iii)pass an initial licence skills test in the same category of aircraft.

(3) The holder of an ATPL(A) who has not flown a minimum of 3 hours as either PIC or PICUS, or 6 hours as co-pilot in the 6 months preceding a revalidation check, shall undergo sufficient ground and flight training at an approved ATO to reach the standard required for the revalidation check of a ATPL(A), and meet the recency requirements to act as PIC.
Assuming your maintenance of competency lapsed in May 2015, you have until May 2018 before you need to rewrite airlaw too...
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Re: License expired

Unread post by ConnieP51 » Wed Sep 26, 2018 10:43 am

Good Day Gentleman

I am trying to find the correct answer for my predicament.

I hold a CPL/IR which I renewed last year on the simulator. It expired last month, this is not really the problem.

I spoke to a gentleman that informed me that, if I have not flown on an actual aircraft, within the previous 3 years, I would have to re-write my Airlaw examinations. All renewals were done only on the sim, and no actual aircraft recency was done, last ACTUAL flight was done on 15 November 2015. Last Renewal was done last year August 2017 on a simulator.

I am been reading the regs and it specifies nothing of an actual aircraft, only maintaining competency, except the training for the PIC time or Co-pilot time). But I was also informed this was publicized in a separate notification which I cannot find.

Can someone please shed some light on this?
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Re: License expired

Unread post by happyskipper » Wed Sep 26, 2018 12:03 pm

ConnieP51 wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 10:43 am
Good Day Gentleman

I am trying to find the correct answer for my predicament.

I hold a CPL/IR which I renewed last year on the simulator. It expired last month, this is not really the problem.

I spoke to a gentleman that informed me that, if I have not flown on an actual aircraft, within the previous 3 years, I would have to re-write my Airlaw examinations. All renewals were done only on the sim, and no actual aircraft recency was done, last ACTUAL flight was done on 15 November 2015. Last Renewal was done last year August 2017 on a simulator.

I am been reading the regs and it specifies nothing of an actual aircraft, only maintaining competency, except the training for the PIC time or Co-pilot time). But I was also informed this was publicized in a separate notification which I cannot find.

Can someone please shed some light on this?
That sounds like another "tea-time rule".
If they cannot furnish you with the relevant regulation, ignore them - go ahead with the application - put everything in writing.
:roll:
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Re: License expired

Unread post by cage » Thu Sep 27, 2018 11:50 am

happyskipper wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 12:03 pm
ConnieP51 wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 10:43 am
Good Day Gentleman

I am trying to find the correct answer for my predicament.

I hold a CPL/IR which I renewed last year on the simulator. It expired last month, this is not really the problem.

I spoke to a gentleman that informed me that, if I have not flown on an actual aircraft, within the previous 3 years, I would have to re-write my Airlaw examinations. All renewals were done only on the sim, and no actual aircraft recency was done, last ACTUAL flight was done on 15 November 2015. Last Renewal was done last year August 2017 on a simulator.

I am been reading the regs and it specifies nothing of an actual aircraft, only maintaining competency, except the training for the PIC time or Co-pilot time). But I was also informed this was publicized in a separate notification which I cannot find.

Can someone please shed some light on this?
That sounds like another "tea-time rule".
If they cannot furnish you with the relevant regulation, ignore them - go ahead with the application - put everything in writing.
Don't be so quick to be negative about the CAA.
Regs for CPL maintenance of competency:
(4) The holder of a CPL (Aeroplane) who has not flown a minimum of 3 hours as either PIC or PICUS or 6 hours as co-pilot in the 6 months preceding a revalidation check, shall undergo sufficient ground and flight training at an approved ATO to reach the standard required for the revalidation check of a CPL (Aeroplane), and meet the recency requirements to act as PIC.
[Sub-r. (4) deleted by r. 16 (a) and added by r. 16 (b) of GNR.532 of 30 July 2013.]
(5) The revalidation check must be undertaken in an aeroplane with a variable pitch propeller or turbojet engine.
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Re: License expired

Unread post by happyskipper » Thu Sep 27, 2018 11:59 am

cage wrote:
Thu Sep 27, 2018 11:50 am
happyskipper wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 12:03 pm
ConnieP51 wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 10:43 am
Good Day Gentleman

I am trying to find the correct answer for my predicament.

I hold a CPL/IR which I renewed last year on the simulator. It expired last month, this is not really the problem.

I spoke to a gentleman that informed me that, if I have not flown on an actual aircraft, within the previous 3 years, I would have to re-write my Airlaw examinations. All renewals were done only on the sim, and no actual aircraft recency was done, last ACTUAL flight was done on 15 November 2015. Last Renewal was done last year August 2017 on a simulator.

I am been reading the regs and it specifies nothing of an actual aircraft, only maintaining competency, except the training for the PIC time or Co-pilot time). But I was also informed this was publicized in a separate notification which I cannot find.

Can someone please shed some light on this?
That sounds like another "tea-time rule".
If they cannot furnish you with the relevant regulation, ignore them - go ahead with the application - put everything in writing.
Don't be so quick to be negative about the CAA.
Regs for CPL maintenance of competency:
(4) The holder of a CPL (Aeroplane) who has not flown a minimum of 3 hours as either PIC or PICUS or 6 hours as co-pilot in the 6 months preceding a revalidation check, shall undergo sufficient ground and flight training at an approved ATO to reach the standard required for the revalidation check of a CPL (Aeroplane), and meet the recency requirements to act as PIC.
[Sub-r. (4) deleted by r. 16 (a) and added by r. 16 (b) of GNR.532 of 30 July 2013.]
(5) The revalidation check must be undertaken in an aeroplane with a variable pitch propeller or turbojet engine.
Where does it state that he must re-write air law, Cage??
I am quick to point out blatant "made-up" regulations, because I have been a victim of them, both in aviation and maritime. Rules must be followed - I am a stickler for that - but "rules" that exist only in the minds of the admin clerks at the front desk must be challenged.
:roll:
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Re: License expired

Unread post by cage » Thu Sep 27, 2018 12:10 pm

happyskipper wrote:
Thu Sep 27, 2018 11:59 am
Where does it state that he must re-write air law, Cage??
I am quick to point out blatant "made-up" regulations, because I have been a victim of them, both in aviation and maritime. Rules must be followed - I am a stickler for that - but "rules" that exist only in the minds of the admin clerks at the front desk must be challenged.
(b) in the case of a holder of a CPL where the maintenance of competency has lapsed by more than 36 months, the licence holder shall be required to—
(i) rewrite the Air Law examination;
(ii) undergo sufficient ground and flight training at an approved ATO to reach the standard required for the revalidation check of a CPL(A), and meet the recency requirements to act as PIC; and
(iii) pass an initial licence skills test in the same category of aircraft;
If he has not met the requirements for more than 3 years then the highlighted section applies.
Not having validated in an actual aircraft for that period would put him in that situation.

If he was current and met requirements within 3 years then air law rewrite does not apply, all depends when the last proper validation was.
Requirements for less that 3 years are:
The holder of a CPL(A) who has not maintained competency by passing a revalidation check or an initial licence skills test in the same category of aircraft within the 24 months following the issue or revalidation of such licence shall comply with the following requirements—

(a) in the case of a holder of a CPL where the maintenance of competency has lapsed by not more than 36 months, the licence holder shall be required to—
(i) undergo sufficient ground and flight training at an approved ATO to reach the standard required for the revalidation check of a CPL(A), and meet the recency requirements to act as PIC; and
(ii) pass a revalidation check in the same category of aircraft
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Re: License expired

Unread post by happyskipper » Thu Sep 27, 2018 1:57 pm

So - in actual fact he has until the 15 November 2018 to get current and revalidate his CPL before it becomes necessary to re-write air law, according to the information given.

Re-writing air law is no big deal, either, and I had to do that, and more, in order to revalidate my PPL in July. The law is the law, and must be upheld - but the most important thing is to feel comfortable with one's own level of experience, competency and currency - which is why I did more than the minimum, but did not inform SACAA of that fact - in case they apply that as a "must do" in future.

Thanks, Cage, for digging up those regs - it saved me a helluva lot of research. :D
:roll:
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Re: License expired

Unread post by cage » Thu Sep 27, 2018 5:58 pm

happyskipper wrote:
Thu Sep 27, 2018 1:57 pm
So - in actual fact he has until the 15 November 2018 to get current and revalidate his CPL before it becomes necessary to re-write air law, according to the information given.

Re-writing air law is no big deal, either, and I had to do that, and more, in order to revalidate my PPL in July. The law is the law, and must be upheld - but the most important thing is to feel comfortable with one's own level of experience, competency and currency - which is why I did more than the minimum, but did not inform SACAA of that fact - in case they apply that as a "must do" in future.

Thanks, Cage, for digging up those regs - it saved me a helluva lot of research. :D
One thing worth remembering.
It's not about when last he flew, it's about the last legal validation.
If he has only done renewals on a sim, none of the renewals would be valid. The CAA would rewind until the last legal renewal.
Any flying since then does not matter and would in fact be illegal.

(and no, airlaw is no biggie)
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Cenrifugel
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Re: License expired

Unread post by Cenrifugel » Tue Oct 16, 2018 5:40 am

From what I understand now it’s not just airlaw but also intruments you need to rewrite if your ATPL has expired by more than 36 months. Can anyone shed any light on this?

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