Clarity

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timmy
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Re: Clarity

Unread post by timmy » Wed Sep 17, 2014 8:52 am

From the chairmans report, SAMAA news issue 2 of 2014

"I can report that the audit into the accounts ofthe F3A World Championships
held last year in South Africa was concluded and that it was given three
greens by an independent forensic auditor in his personal capacity. The
assessed loss is recorded as R42 000.00. There are many factors that led to
that and many lessons were learned. I can further report that I am satisfied
that this loss was not incurred due to negligence or lack of effort, but merely
due to circumstances chan,ging during the organisational period of the event.
The SIG's (Special Interest Groups) of the SAMAA have agreed to absorb
this loss over a period of time in their budget and therefore it does not affect
the finances ofthe SAMAA in the long term."

From SAMAA AGM-portfolio reports 31 October 2013

"The forecast finances as compared to the current budget for the year ended March 2014 reflect a projected income of R1.4M and Expenditure of a similar projected amount. We caution that we may end with a shortfall due to the unforecast increase in AeroClub fees (changes to SAMAA member demographics) R72k.
Also, a loan of R78k has been extended to the F3A organisers to offset the shortfall & is being recovered from the SIGs over two years, including asset offset & limited SAMAA funding to minimise the impact on all members."

Am I missing something ?
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Re: Clarity

Unread post by danie.e » Wed Sep 17, 2014 9:11 am

Yes, a substantial amount of money! - transparency is all that is going to make this go away
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Re: Clarity

Unread post by tanglefoot » Wed Sep 17, 2014 8:32 pm

Here's a thought, one that makes sense to me anyway.

What if the large increase in reserves accounts for the loss of advertising revenue that SAMAA blames Peter Joffe for?

Peter claimed revenue in those sort of numbers and looking at the SAMAA budgeting skills it would not be inconceivable that the advertising income was allocated to the balance sheet.
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Re: Clarity

Unread post by timmy » Thu Sep 18, 2014 8:57 am

tanglefoot wrote:Here's a thought, one that makes sense to me anyway.

What if the large increase in reserves accounts for the loss of advertising revenue that SAMAA blames Peter Joffe for?

Peter claimed revenue in those sort of numbers and looking at the SAMAA budgeting skills it would not be inconceivable that the advertising income was allocated to the balance sheet.
Hmmmmm, the web gets even more tangled :shock: (yep, another snide remark :D )

The 2 question asked by myself still not answered, "why should the SIG's pay for someone else's blunder" and "what happened to the missing funds"

Tim Mason
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Re: Clarity

Unread post by timmy » Sat Sep 20, 2014 9:15 am

Wow, the silence is deafening.

The SAMAA chairman has, in the past branded us a faceless community and has insisted that any questions be directed to him by email or telephonically. See here:

viewtopic.php?f=143&t=114633

Why should correspondence such as the questions I am asking be kept confidential unless there is something to hide? (It raises a certain amount of suspicion as to why it should be kept confidential)

MAASA had nothing to do with the F3A worlds and neither did SAMAA, who did? Apparently a special committee was elected to organize and run it, who elected them? If SAMAA had nothing to do with the organization and running of the worlds why are we, as members paying for the apparent blunder / loss / shortfall? Surely the people elected to organize and run it should be held responsible, not SAMAA and certainly not the SIG's.

Why has SAMAA extended a loan of 78K to the organizers to cover a loss of 42K? What is the extra amount for?

Something just does not add up and SAMAA’s continued silence on this whole matter will only make things worse, people want answers.

Tim
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Re: Clarity

Unread post by Gary Lees » Sat Sep 20, 2014 11:12 am

This whole episode is incredible. The people who should answer these questions are elected by the members, yet they feel they have no need to explain their actions.

Well then, vote with your feet. Everybody, refuse to pay your SIG membership fees then the SIGs will have no money to bail out SAMAA. You do not have to be a member of a SIG to compete, only that MAASA forces membership to be considered for team selection so only 4 people will have to pay.

I am afraid, this type of situation is fast developing into a major scandal, so really SAMAA must make everything transparent. We started off with the newsletter, now the F3A losses, height restrictions forcing competition cancellations. What next? What is SAMAA doing for the members? From my perspective, SAMAA is helping the RC flyer to become more restricted with fewer flying options. If the continues, we wont even be able to fly foamies in our bathrooms!!

Come on SAMAA get your act together, sort out this nonsense and be transparent in your dealings, otherwise you will become a dinosaur.
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Re: Clarity

Unread post by timmy » Tue Sep 30, 2014 9:11 am

More than a week and nothing, SAMAA, this will not just go away as you are obviously hoping.

Are SAMAA and the MC hiding something?

Tim
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Re: Clarity

Unread post by danie.e » Tue Sep 30, 2014 9:38 am

Gary,

I have a suspicion it is a "dinosaur" already
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Re: Clarity

Unread post by tanglefoot » Tue Sep 30, 2014 10:02 am

timmy wrote:More than a week and nothing, SAMAA, this will not just go away as you are obviously hoping.

Are SAMAA and the MC hiding something?

Tim
SAMAA 652
It looks like Mike has also given up 'playing for time' on Avcom.

I would still like to see the request, signed by 100 members, to hold a special meeting (a constitutional requirement). I find it hard to believe that they have such a document as there are not even 100 members at an AGM :?

My feeling is that if the constitutional requirements for the special meeting were not met then the current 'committee members' are not constitutionally elected and become jointly and severally liable for the (mis)management of SAMAA.

Could they REALLY knowingly place themselves in such a position?

The AGM is at the end of October and fortunately (for me) I will NOT be able to attend.
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Re: Clarity

Unread post by Mike Brews » Tue Sep 30, 2014 10:59 am

Alcon,

I am not playing for time at all. Marthinus has sent an email to a concerned member stating that he will reply to him in detail.
Now once again one needs to look at why this question keeps coming up a year after the event. If I look at the numbers of members contributing to this thread, compared to the numbers that are just viewing, that in itself tells a story.

i am at Barnstormers most Saturday afternoons and I will discuss any matter with any concerned members quiet openly. Replying to questions on a thread which has been resurrected and the answers given are refuted by the Chartered Accounts and Marketing Directors on the thread has become increasingly frustrating to me.

I am not afraid to go into fine details. However, when the documentation has been published in the News Letter and handled at the previous AGM, then I have to question the motives behind these questions.

As far as the election to the SMC goes; I did not see your names up for nomination when called for. Nor were your names put up when the SMC needed to be constitutionally filled with enough elected members to keep it constitutional. I did not see you at the Special General Meeting to elect members to the SMC. Will I see you at the AGM or will there only be the handful of diehards who attend year after year.

Like you, I could have chosen to complain, make cleaver statements, and in general not take part in the actual running of the Association. In stead, I chose to make myself available to the Association to help where my talents can be used. I am proud to be a member of the Association and therefore, I stood for election and we as the new SMC are turning the Association into the Association that will serve its membership's interests. Thus I encourage robust debate and do not shy away from being part of any debate.

As a SMC committee member, there are times when I must abide by a decision taken by the committee even if I opposed the decision. It is after all a democracy that we are living in. You are all welcome to pick up the phone talk to me, email me. My details are in my signature.

Kind regards

Mike
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Re: Clarity

Unread post by timmy » Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:52 am

Mike Brews wrote:Alcon,

I am not playing for time at all. Marthinus has sent an email to a concerned member stating that he will reply to him in detail.
Now once again one needs to look at why this question keeps coming up a year after the event. If I look at the numbers of members contributing to this thread, compared to the numbers that are just viewing, that in itself tells a story.

i am at Barnstormers most Saturday afternoons and I will discuss any matter with any concerned members quiet openly. Replying to questions on a thread which has been resurrected and the answers given are refuted by the Chartered Accounts and Marketing Directors on the thread has become increasingly frustrating to me.

I am not afraid to go into fine details. However, when the documentation has been published in the News Letter and handled at the previous AGM, then I have to question the motives behind these questions.

As far as the election to the SMC goes; I did not see your names up for nomination when called for. Nor were your names put up when the SMC needed to be constitutionally filled with enough elected members to keep it constitutional. I did not see you at the Special General Meeting to elect members to the SMC. Will I see you at the AGM or will there only be the handful of diehards who attend year after year.

Like you, I could have chosen to complain, make cleaver statements, and in general not take part in the actual running of the Association. In stead, I chose to make myself available to the Association to help where my talents can be used. I am proud to be a member of the Association and therefore, I stood for election and we as the new SMC are turning the Association into the Association that will serve its membership's interests. Thus I encourage robust debate and do not shy away from being part of any debate.

As a SMC committee member, there are times when I must abide by a decision taken by the committee even if I opposed the decision. It is after all a democracy that we are living in. You are all welcome to pick up the phone talk to me, email me. My details are in my signature.

Kind regards

Mike
Mike, thanks for the reply, I emailed Marthinus this morning asking for answers, he replied saying he will answer in detail next week when he gets back to SA.

I have no interest in being part of the SMC and this is the first time in some 35 odd years of being a SAARF, then SAMAA member that I have asked a question of the SMC. I do however expect the elected officials to run the SAMAA with honesty and integrity, why can't answers to my queries be posted here for all to see instead of just to me as a concerned member? Instead we get long winded excuses as to why the questions cannot be answered! Then you wonder why we get speculation and "snide" remarks (of which I am also guilty) I think you would have found that if the questions had been answered 3 pages ago we wouldn't be sniping at each other now.

Rant over, I will wait for Mathinus's reply.
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Re: Clarity

Unread post by danie.e » Tue Sep 30, 2014 1:05 pm

Had it not been for a single individual, the Arms debacle in S.A. would never have been known. Had it not been for a reporter in the Mail and Guardian (If I remember correct - apologies if it was someone else), we would never have known about Nkandla.

These people were not members of parliament, MEC's or even leaders in society but because they had the guts to take on the status quo, we now know enough to keep on pushing until all the questions are answered.

What makes SAMAA so different or unique that people who are not committee members or attend meetings, cannot ask questions AND expect answers?

I have no interest in becoming a member of any committee nor do I find it necessary to attend meetings. I do however wish to participate in my chosen hobby legally, and due to the fact that SAMAA has been appointed the guardian of my chosen hobby AND due to the fact that I have to make an annual financial contribution to be a member of SAMAA, I have the right to expect that any of my questions relating to the running of SAMAA, or the use of funds be answered in an open and transparent manner.

The mere fact that there are people that have the inclination to stand for and be elected as office bearers does NOT give them the right to do as they deem fit with either the body or its finances without the explicit permission of the majority of its members.

In the light of the above, I object in the strongest terms to the continued reference to: "if you were not there, or if you do not make yourself available" to justify certain actions and or decisions taken by management and therefore expect the ordinary member to SHUT UP and let it be !!!!!!!
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Re: Clarity

Unread post by Mike Brews » Sat Oct 11, 2014 8:05 pm

Hi Timmy,

I trust that you have received a reply from Marthinus regarding the World Championship repayment of funds to SAMAA.

Please do not hesitate to contact any of the SMC members.

Kind regards

Mike Brews.
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Re: Clarity

Unread post by timmy » Mon Oct 13, 2014 2:07 pm

Yep, received a reply, for the most part makes sense, why those answers couldn't be posted here in the first place is beyond me, would have saved a lot of speculation and snide remarks :D

I have emailed Marthinus asking him if there are any objections to his replies being posted here.

What's happened to the funfly masters this year? :twisted:
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Re: Clarity

Unread post by danie.e » Mon Oct 13, 2014 2:15 pm

Hey Tim,

Please send me a copy

Thanks
Danie
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