What is SAMAA doing about lifting lockdown restrictions?

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What is SAMAA doing about lifting lockdown restrictions?

Unread post by FHV » Sat Jun 06, 2020 10:55 am

As a loyal fee paying SAMAA member I would really like to know what SAMAA , who are supposed to represent my interests, are doing about lobbying government to lift the restrictions on RC flying.

As I understand it full size aviation is opened up but even though our former chairman is now vice chairman of the Aeroclub, we hear nothing . Ever heard the term no taxation without representation ? Come on guys ! Do the job you were elected to do!

Don't send me flowery emails promising a wonderful SAMAA News edition, tell me what you're doing to get us all back in the air!

Just this morning I read on a jet forum that there is dissent brewing and talk of cancelling SAMAA membership. That would be disasterous to say the least because so far the pros of being a SAMAA member (as flawed as it is) have far outweighed the cons, but continued inaction will surely lead to an ever increasing exodus.

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Re: What is SAMAA doing about lifting lockdown restrictions?

Unread post by heisan » Sat Jun 06, 2020 10:58 am

FHV wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 10:55 am
As I understand it full size aviation is opened up...
Just a clarification - no recreational full size aviation is allowed at the moment - only commercial and business related flying.
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Re: What is SAMAA doing about lifting lockdown restrictions?

Unread post by danie.e » Sat Jun 06, 2020 1:46 pm

I have spoken to Bob Skinner earlier this week and they are awaiting response from Civil Aviation Authorities. Bob assured me that they have been trying to pressurize authorities since the start of stage four but so far no results.
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Re: What is SAMAA doing about lifting lockdown restrictions?

Unread post by FHV » Sat Jun 06, 2020 4:00 pm

Thanks for the feedback, appreciate that you took the effort. Would be nice to get an occasional email update from SAMAA telling all members where we stand. Maybe this will encourage SAMAA to do to that.
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Re: What is SAMAA doing about lifting lockdown restrictions?

Unread post by Trevorn » Sat Jun 06, 2020 4:47 pm

As critical as I am sometimes towards SAMAA, there is not much they can do about lockdown restrictions.

Flying RC models is in the same category as social sports. They are not allowed. Professional sports yes, but not social sports.

Regarding special exemption, well on what grounds? There are no compelling reasons why RC flying should be treated differently to any other social activity where people come in contact with eachother.
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Re: What is SAMAA doing about lifting lockdown restrictions?

Unread post by FHV » Sun Jun 07, 2020 2:51 am

Of the three social activities I regularly play ; golf, tennis and rc flying, rc flying is the only one I don't hear anything about from my representatives (SAMAA)regularly about the lobbying and communication with the minister of sport.

It's pretty clear by now that the government is fixated on strongman power politics with regards to lockdown, but if our voices are not raised at ministerial level by our reps then someone's not doing their job.

As to the comment about why make exceptions; because that's what we hope intelligent enlightened people will do; look at the facts and asses the risks ,weigh them up against civil liberties and make a decision on a case by case basis instead of a one rule fits all approach . RC flying very clearly is able to be performed by sensible pilots applying sensible social distancing rules without BIG brother telling us we're too stupid to know what's good for us.

By the way if you think rc pilots are hard done by spare a thought for the 125 000 golfers who are being blocked by governmental intransigence. That is a loss to the economy of at least 100 million a month from a sport that is just about the most social distanced there is. A third of golf clubs are technically now bankrupt and will probably close down - a mirror of our attrociuosly mismanaged economy.
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Re: What is SAMAA doing about lifting lockdown restrictions?

Unread post by Trevorn » Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:52 am

FHV wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 2:51 am


As to the comment about why make exceptions; because that's what we hope intelligent enlightened people will do; look at the facts and asses the risks ,weigh them up against civil liberties and make a decision on a case by case basis instead of a one rule fits all approach . RC flying very clearly is able to be performed by sensible pilots applying sensible social distancing rules without BIG brother telling us we're too stupid to know what's good for us.
So you motivation is based on you hoping the hobby is made up of intelligent and enlightened people?

Unfortunately that does not present a compelling argument at all. Even on a case by case basis I can see no reason for RC flying to be granted an exemption. Even though it is possible to partake in rc flying while maintaing proper social distancing, that is no guarantee it will be like that. The whole aim of a lockdown is to reduce the risk exposure. Rc flying is just not that important to justify an exemption.

If you open up rc flying (or golf, tennis, and so one) you have to open up all non contact social activities. That by it's very nature and numbers will accelerate the spread of Covert 19. There are many other sectors of the economy that are still closed that present a greater risk to the livelihoods of those involved that our hobby. Film industry, hospitality and so on.

Just because a decision or ruling does not suit us, does not mean it is a baseless one. Sometimes we have to accept things we dont like.

Furthermore, given SAMAA's limited resources why squander them engaging the government on a issue you will not win, and is temporary in nature?

I would far rather SAMAA focused its limited resources on getting the regulations on large models propagated as that is something it stands a chance at and is long term in nature.

Having said all that SAMAA is not good at communication at all. If they had a monthly report they emailed to all members they could have addressed the situation. Then you would not have started this thread on the first place. Also a half page monthly report would take maybe an hour to compile and would add more visibility to its members giving them more acceptance within the rc community.
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Re: What is SAMAA doing about lifting lockdown restrictions?

Unread post by FHV » Sun Jun 07, 2020 2:15 pm

Sorry, my mistake.
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Re: What is SAMAA doing about lifting lockdown restrictions?

Unread post by wimares » Tue Jun 09, 2020 1:53 pm

Fishing, hunting as well as self-drive visits to game reserves and national parks are permitted under lockdown Level 3, the Department of Environment, Forestry and Fisheries said on Monday.

"All fishing, including recreational fishing, is permitted with the exception of charter fishing," Environment, Forestry and Fisheries Minister Barbara Creecy confirmed in a statement.

https://www.news24.com/news24/southafri ... 3-20200601

RC flying not recreational?
SAMAA, your guidance and feedback is in dire need here please.
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Re: What is SAMAA doing about lifting lockdown restrictions?

Unread post by mnmodels » Tue Jun 09, 2020 6:53 pm

[/quote]
Having said all that SAMAA is not good at communication at all. If they had a monthly report they emailed to all members they could have addressed the situation. Then you would not have started this thread on the first place. Also a half page monthly report would take maybe an hour to compile and would add more visibility to its members giving them more acceptance within the rc community.
[/quote]

And herein lays the crux of the matter!

Why apologise Francois? You did nothing wrong! In fact this is the problem with our nation at this moment. We are so use to bad service that we even apologise if we are looking for answers.

I notice that Danie e is answering all questions raised about SAMAA. So maybe he knows more about the situation than the rest of us. In fact the only person that replies to e-mails is Bob. And if you look at the structure of SAMAA according to the constitution, it seems that there are multiple personnel driving this organisation.

So maybe a relevant question would be: Maybe SAMAA is “top heavy”? Just a basic observation considering the lack of report back.
Or maybe it is the fact that the X chairman of SAMAA is now seated on the AeroClub committee. So SAMAA chairman see no use to reply to its members? I do not know.

But according to the constitution, the chairman and the committee serves the paying members. And the no1 objective of the constitution is to promote the hobby. Maybe doing nothing and leaving it up to someone else is the answer?

If the chairman have reported and showed its members that they are serious and are willing to fight for our rights, I for one will have no problem with SAMAA. After all there is just so much you can do.

On TV we see governments giving feedback day in and day out to its citizens. The no 1 Municipality in South Africa ,Mossel Bay, gives weekly feedback to all tax payers regarding the situation in town. This is what we expect from organizations that are serving its members. Maybe it is asking too much?

I am a member of the AeroClub. So I get all the feedback. But most of the SAMAA members are not. So they are blinded. They see day by day other recreational organizations open up. Like RC Cars. But the poor RC flyer is discriminated against because he/she is associated with SAMAA.

Dannie e is quick to reference the law and court. But the number question a judge and the prosecution will ask: “was it fair?"

Definitely not. But we accept this.
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Re: What is SAMAA doing about lifting lockdown restrictions?

Unread post by FHV » Thu Jun 11, 2020 11:12 pm

PM sent to you Morne
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Re: What is SAMAA doing about lifting lockdown restrictions?

Unread post by danie.e » Sat Jun 13, 2020 8:15 am

Two corrections:

1) I do not answer or even try to answer ALL questions about SAMAA
2) I have never touted SAMAA insurance

What I actually DO is comment like everyone else. My comment is pure and simple: Rather join SAMAA and be part of a collective that can go a long way in protecting the interest of RC in South Africa. Furthermore, the fact that there are insurance cover is neither here nor there. I have always recommended people to ensure they have their own liability cover.

The logic as far as legal matters is simple: If you do something idiotic, authorities will not only look at your actions in isolation but will start regulating the "sport" "hobby" which will affect all and not just the individual.

If you have a problem with the organisation, use your vote, canvass more votes, become involved and change what bugs you. If you just keep on posting in forums like this, you are achieving absolutely nothing except alienating prospective members. Even better still, form your own association and prove to authorities you can do it better. That way you can rid yourself of SAMAA and achieve your goals.

I do not condone the lack of correspondence from SAMAA but it is what we have. To constantly bicker and moan about it in social media will not fix the problems that exist. My suggestion is read the previous paragraph again.

The biggest problem we have in social media is that people read "selectively" and only attach value to portions that they either agree, have a problem with, or actually remember. The result is people are often labeled due to incorrect perceptions. Read whatever people write holistically and you may be quite surprised with what they are trying to bring across.

Finally, I took the trouble to phone SAMAA direct about what they are doing re the lock down. The reply was good enough for me and was in line with current lock down regulations. I talked to Bob Skinner for some time about the issue and requested they put in as much effort as possible to get us back flying and he gave me the assurance that they were trying their best.

People are comparing RC flying to the current easing of regulations for recreational angling, golf and even tennis. The number of people affiliated to their respective governing bodies tally in the tens and even hundreds of thousands and therefor have much more clout when lobbying authorities. SAMAA with fewer than 4000 members in my opinion does not really warrant the same attention as angling for instance.

It is my humble opinion that if RC enthusiasts all supported SAMAA, we may have had a stronger voice with authorities and possibly could even have been flying by now but alas............
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Re: What is SAMAA doing about lifting lockdown restrictions?

Unread post by danie.e » Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:39 am

A Quick scan through the latest lock down regulations starting June 1, 2020 reveals that there is no mention of Recreational or Sport flying for full scale manned aircraft neither any mention of Radio Controlled aircraft. Just about every sport body one can think of is mentioned in the amended regulations. (except for sport like darts and snooker that is indoors which in itself is not contact sport but due to close proximity of contestants as in darts and and touching of snooker tables- which makes sense)

What bugs me of these regulations is that sport flying (which is a professional sport as well) does not feature anywhere. The regulations allows just about every other "NON CONTACT" sport and their respective controlling bodies to resume activities.

Now comes the real question: What clout does the "AERO CLUB" of S.A. have with the department of transport regarding all aspects of recreational flying in South Africa or is it just a "rubber stamp" authority for the department of transport.

Is this because we simply do not have sufficient numbers that participate or is this maybe because it is regarded as "a rich man" activity?

Is it not maybe time for all people involved in aviation to get together and form their own controlling body and lobby the dept until they are recognised as the only representative body for all aspects of recreational, sport, and professional flying in South Africa?
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Re: What is SAMAA doing about lifting lockdown restrictions?

Unread post by mnmodels » Sun Jun 14, 2020 1:58 pm

danie.e wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:39 am
A Quick scan through the latest lock down regulations starting June 1, 2020 reveals that there is no mention of Recreational or Sport flying for full scale manned aircraft neither any mention of Radio Controlled aircraft. Just about every sport body one can think of is mentioned in the amended regulations. (except for sport like darts and snooker that is indoors which in itself is not contact sport but due to close proximity of contestants as in darts and and touching of snooker tables- which makes sense)

What bugs me of these regulations is that sport flying (which is a professional sport as well) does not feature anywhere. The regulations allows just about every other "NON CONTACT" sport and their respective controlling bodies to resume activities.

Now comes the real question: What clout does the "AERO CLUB" of S.A. have with the department of transport regarding all aspects of recreational flying in South Africa or is it just a "rubber stamp" authority for the department of transport.

Is this because we simply do not have sufficient numbers that participate or is this maybe because it is regarded as "a rich man" activity?

Is it not maybe time for all people involved in aviation to get together and form their own controlling body and lobby the dept until they are recognised as the only representative body for all aspects of recreational, sport, and professional flying in South Africa?
Danie e,

You have me confused now. You are the one that stated that this platform is useless and does not work!

I am glad you are beginning to see the light. If there is no law - then no law is broken. We are not puppets and pay for a service. The answer lie with the AeroClub of South Africa and SAMAA. I requested the names of the "SAMAA Management Team" as there is no mention of such team in the constitution. I also requested the application to fly under lock down to the DoT as the email state that SAMAA is monitoring the DoT.

We have heard that the 25kg rule was approved, waiting gazetting. It was 1 year ago.

As you stated, talking and writing on this platform will not change anything. Using the votes of paid up members will.
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Re: What is SAMAA doing about lifting lockdown restrictions?

Unread post by Trevor Duane » Sun Jun 14, 2020 2:48 pm

mnmodels wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 1:58 pm
danie.e wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:39 am
A Quick scan through the latest lock down regulations starting June 1, 2020 reveals that there is no mention of Recreational or Sport flying for full scale manned aircraft neither any mention of Radio Controlled aircraft. Just about every sport body one can think of is mentioned in the amended regulations. (except for sport like darts and snooker that is indoors which in itself is not contact sport but due to close proximity of contestants as in darts and and touching of snooker tables- which makes sense)

What bugs me of these regulations is that sport flying (which is a professional sport as well) does not feature anywhere. The regulations allows just about every other "NON CONTACT" sport and their respective controlling bodies to resume activities.

Now comes the real question: What clout does the "AERO CLUB" of S.A. have with the department of transport regarding all aspects of recreational flying in South Africa or is it just a "rubber stamp" authority for the department of transport.

Is this because we simply do not have sufficient numbers that participate or is this maybe because it is regarded as "a rich man" activity?

Is it not maybe time for all people involved in aviation to get together and form their own controlling body and lobby the dept until they are recognised as the only representative body for all aspects of recreational, sport, and professional flying in South Africa?
Danie e,

You have me confused now. You are the one that stated that this platform is useless and does not work!

I am glad you are beginning to see the light. If there is no law - then no law is broken. We are not puppets and pay for a service. The answer lie with the AeroClub of South Africa and SAMAA. I requested the names of the "SAMAA Management Team" as there is no mention of such team in the constitution. I also requested the application to fly under lock down to the DoT as the email state that SAMAA is monitoring the DoT.

We have heard that the 25kg rule was approved, waiting gazetting. It was 1 year ago.

As you stated, talking and writing on this platform will not change anything. Using the votes of paid up members will.
As an indication of how quickly items can now be gazzetted the recent part 141 changes to the lockdown regulations were proposed on a Thursday and gazzetted the following Sunday. So questions regarding all other delays regarding the same become automatically valid.

What could be keeping this back 1 year later ?

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