Max weight/wingspan of a plane

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Cerebus
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Max weight/wingspan of a plane

Unread post by Cerebus » Wed Sep 29, 2010 5:23 pm

Hi Guys

I would like to know what the legal maximum weight and or wingspan of a plane is (at least something that will fall into the insurance cover).

Also, let say a plane comes in at 55kg what would be the procedure to get it approved. From Europe, and espcially in Germany, I know the process. Someone from the governing body will come and imspect the plane and do a load test. If the plane passes then it can be flown under the insurance.

With planes getting bigger and bigger and the big ones now becomming more afforable this is a real concern.

Thanks
Peter
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Re: Max weight/wingspan of a plane

Unread post by Michael Basson » Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:53 pm

Hi Peter

We have just been through this process with the big Waco of Dave.

We did the checks on the plane and it was given authority to fly, with special insurance for the Oudtshoorn show. (current limit is 25kg)

SAMAA is in the process of writing a operations manual for this, have been in contact with Bob and will let us know soon i hope.

Give me a shout if you need help

Regards

Michael
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Re: Max weight/wingspan of a plane

Unread post by Cerebus » Thu Sep 30, 2010 8:49 pm

Hi Michael

Do you know what the time frame would be to get this framework/document written? I've got 3 customers who want 50%+ planes, two care about the weight limit the other one just flies on his farm. No SAMAA insurance there.

Peter
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Roger
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Re: Max weight/wingspan of a plane

Unread post by Roger » Thu Sep 30, 2010 11:58 pm

I think it is more than just insurance. Once over the weight limit of a model it becomes classed as a UAV. At this stage it goes into a whole different set of aviation regulations - viz the same regulations governing amateur built aircraft.

From the regs:
24.01.2.N.1 General Characteristics of Model Aircraft
(1) The general characteristics of model aircraft are set by the Federation Aeronautique Internationale and may be found in section 4 of its document ABR, Part 4 C.
(2)Unless otherwise stated, model aircraft shall meet the following general specifications:
(a)maximum flying weight with fuel 25 kg;
(b)maximum surface area 5 m2;
(c)maximum loading 5 kg/m2;
(d)maximum swept volume of piston motor(s) 250 cm3;
(e)electric motors power source maximum no-load voltage 42 volts;
(f)metal-bladed propellers are prohibited.

(3)Model helicopters shall meet the following general specifications:
(a)Maximum weight with fuel 5 kg;
(b)maximum swept area of the lifting rotor(s) counting only once anysuperimposed areas 3 m2: Provided that in the case of co-axial model helicopters whose rotors are further than one rotor diameter apart, the total area of both rotors is counted;
(c)piston motor swept volume maximum 10 cm3;
(d)rubber motor no restrictions.

(4)Free-flying model aircraft Free-flying model aircraft that are neither radio- or line-controlled shall not have a maximum mass exceeding 5 kg.

(5)Noise limitations:
(a)Noise limitations shall be applied to powered model aircraft categories, with 96 dB (A) at 3 meters for any category, which does not have approval for any other noise rule. Specific noise measuring procedures are to be developed by relevant national body in which model aircraft operators are associated.
(b)Noise limits do not apply to model aircraft with electric motors.

O. OTHER AIRCRAFT

24.01.2.O.1 Design Standards

Non-type certificated aircraft other than those provided for in the above sections C to N shall meet the design criteria of either amateur-built aircraft or production-built aircraft.
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Re: Max weight/wingspan of a plane

Unread post by heisan » Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:04 am

That is the law, as it stands. I understand however that SAMAA has some sort of an agreement with the CAA regarding giant scale aircraft (there is a thread about this somewhere deep in Avcom's archives)?
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Re: Max weight/wingspan of a plane

Unread post by LionelBrink » Wed Apr 20, 2011 10:58 am

Hi Guys,

CAR 2011 does not list any restriction on a model's wingspan, although SAMAA's MoP recommends not exceeding 6 metres (I am in the process of having this recommendation removed). The CAR does list a max. wing area - but its best to reference the information directly from the CAA's document as I cannot accurately remember the number & hate indirect references/broken telephone nonsense.

In terms of exceedintg 25kg - Warren van der Vyver of the LSA SIG can possibly provide advise on the process to follow - refer to the backpage of the March 2011 SAMAA newsletter for his contact details.

Regards,
Lionel
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Re: Max weight/wingspan of a plane

Unread post by electricfly2002 » Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:52 pm

Hi,

At the risk of flogging a dead horse the following from the regulations:

All my planes running on 12S seems to be classified as UAVs

Not sure why the pattern guys are so tensed up about noise, as it seems that there is no noise restriction on electric planes!

Not sure why it is such a challenge to update the regulations, unless we are going to wait until an insurance claim is rejected!

Regards,

Andre

Ps. maybe it is time to replace the dead horse ;-)
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Re: Max weight/wingspan of a plane

Unread post by LionelBrink » Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:26 am

electricfly2002 wrote:Hi,

At the risk of flogging a dead horse the following from the regulations:

All my planes running on 12S seems to be classified as UAVs

Not sure why the pattern guys are so tensed up about noise, as it seems that there is no noise restriction on electric planes!

Not sure why it is such a challenge to update the regulations, unless we are going to wait until an insurance claim is rejected!

Regards,

Andre

Ps. maybe it is time to replace the dead horse ;-)
Hi Andre,

As stated previously on many other threads, the true challenge lies is getting the CAA to update their regulations. Not only do we have to convince the CAA to change (using the argument that the FAI hnow recognises these has been succesful to date), but also all the other "agencies" & sub-comms etc., that feel that there rule changes are more important, life threatening, etc than our toys. SAMAA have long been in the process of making these changes to address technological advances & in accordance with international standards - but it is an ongoing process, and is unbelievably slooooow.

Regards,
Lionel
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Re: Max weight/wingspan of a plane

Unread post by tanglefoot » Mon Oct 31, 2011 8:10 pm

electricfly2002 wrote:.........Not sure why the pattern guys are so tensed up about noise, as it seems that there is no noise restriction on electric planes!........................

Ps. maybe it is time to replace the dead horse ;-)
The noise regulation for pattern is an FAI one, not CAA. It is primarily a euro thing (I think) where space is limited and neighbours are grumpy. It has been around for ages and was never changed for electrics. The same noise regulation that is used for fuel airplanes is used for electrics. Interestingly the electrics are really not much quieter (as a rule) than the 2-strokes/4-strokes used in Precision Aerobatics and still push the limits on the FAI sound test.

Problem with the horse (dead or not) is that the horse ain't much worried about toy planes. Much easier to keep them out of the way of full size aircraft than to accommodate them. SAMAA have their work cut out with 12S power sources and FPV :wink:

Another good reason to support them.
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Re: Max weight/wingspan of a plane

Unread post by phoebus7 » Fri Nov 25, 2011 1:44 pm

Oops all hellies over .61 are UAV's :shock:
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