nitrous fuel prohibited - for real

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clivem
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nitrous fuel prohibited - for real

Unread post by clivem » Wed Oct 12, 2011 6:08 pm

is this for real ???

taken from - Operations Manual
DEFINITION AND SPECIFICATION OF MODEL AIRCRAFT
Issue 2 – 2011
PO 18
Management Committee Date: 02. / 07 / 2011
Approved

6. Prohibited
(d) The use of nitrous fuels in model aircraft motors is prohibited :?: :?: :?:
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Re: nitrous fuel prohibited - for real

Unread post by catman » Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:17 pm

Perhaps its....NITRUS OXIDE, and not our Nitro methane?
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Re: nitrous fuel prohibited - for real

Unread post by Gary Lees » Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:19 am

We are making a mistake in using the work NITRO when the main part of the fuel that we use for glow engines is Methanol. So I do not think this will apply to model aircraft.
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Re: nitrous fuel prohibited - for real

Unread post by clivem » Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:29 am

it may be so, but nitrous means containing Nitrogen. our fuel might be mostly methanol but also contains nitrogen if using Nitro methane in it.
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Re: nitrous fuel prohibited - for real

Unread post by jab2 » Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:50 am

catman wrote:Perhaps its....NITRUS OXIDE, and not our Nitro methane?
But then nitrous oxide is an oxidant, not a fuel.

Not into model flying, but I know some about fuels from racing. There is no official fuel group called "nitrous fuels" that I could find. There are two, quite different compounds used in racing to increase the power output of a specific engine. The first is nitrous oxide. For a specific engine the amount of oxygen that it can intake is limited by design, thus if one increase fuel delivery, one merely get an over rich mixture, which in fact robs power. One way of getting more oxygen for the fuel is to compress the intake air, (Turbos/super chargers). The other is to inject Nitrous oxide gas into the intake. This breaks down and form free oxygen which the fuel can use. But like I said this is not a fuel, it's an oxidant.

The other compound is nitromethane, which is used in Top Fueler drag racing. From what I understand nitromethane is also mixed with methanol for use in radio control cars and aircraft. This mixture goes by the name of nitro. What ratios are used and if only mixes above a specific ratio is called nitro I'm not sure on. Since nitromethane is a fuel, but also contain some oxygen in the molecule, a much greater amount of fuel can be given on a specific engine design than what is possible if ALL oxygen was to come from atmospheric ingestion. The power output is thus much higher than for normal methanol on the same size engine.

Sorry for limited info, but that's all I have at this stage.
Last edited by jab2 on Thu Oct 13, 2011 11:49 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: nitrous fuel prohibited - for real

Unread post by LionelBrink » Thu Oct 13, 2011 11:31 am

jab2 wrote:
catman wrote:Perhaps its....NITRUS OXIDE, and not our Nitro methane?
But then nitrous oxide is an oxidant, not a fuel.

Not into model flying, but I know some about fuels from racing. There is no official fuel group called "nitrous fuels" that I could find. There are two, quite different compounds used in racing to increase the power output of a specific engine. The first is nitrous oxide. For a specific engine the amount of oxygen that it can intake is limited by design, thus if one increase fuel delivery, one merely get an over right mixture, which in fact robs power. One way of getting more oxygen for the fuel is to compress the intake air, (Turbos/super chargers). The other is to inject Nitrous oxide gas into the intake. This breaks down and form free oxygen which the fuel can use. But like I said this is not a fuel, it's an oxidant.

The other compound is nitromethane, which is used in Top Fueler drag racing. From what I understand nitromethane is also mixed with methanol for use in radio control cars and aircraft. This mixture goes by the name of nitro. What rations is used and if only mixes above a specific ration is called nitro I'm not sure on. Since nitromethane is a fuel. but also contain some oxygen in the molecule, a much greater amount of fuel can be given on a specific engine design than what is possible if ALL oxygen was to come from atmospheric ingestion. The power output is thus much higher than for normal methanol on the same size engine.

Sorry for limited info, but that's all I have at this stage.
Am working on this too - will confirm what is meant by Nitrous & will request wording changed to industry standard asap.

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Re: nitrous fuel prohibited - for real

Unread post by LionelBrink » Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:46 am

Hi,

This refers specifically to nitrous-oxide (or derivatives) used to super boost performance engines by & for which standard RC aero-engines are not designed.

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Re: nitrous fuel prohibited - for real

Unread post by LionelBrink » Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:53 am

Hi,

The MoP generally refers to international (FAI) definitions of model aircraft.

At this time SAMAA is in negotiation with the CAA to include RC model aircraft over 25kg capacity & as noted previously, have in principle accepted the AMA standard of 100 pound models for "internal" or SAMAA controls. Aircraft with mass exceeding 100 pounds (approx 45kg) will still need to comply with experimental aircraft and/or UAV guidelines - & I have been repeatedly assured that these are CONSIDERABLY more onerous than SAMAA's guidelines on "flying toys".

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