Job For 250 hour? (Frozen Atpl)

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Jokoteabag
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Re: Job For 250 hour? (Frozen Atpl)

Unread post by Jokoteabag » Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:27 am

DUTCHIE161 wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:39 am
I am in a similar position as you. I have 270 hours, frozen ATP, University degree and also a Beechcraft 1900 rating.

I am sending out CV's but haven't been getting the replies I'm hoping for. I am also considering the Cathay Pacific option, but there are certain aspects that make me think otherwise. The fact that they will keep you as a Second Officer for up to 4 years, being far away from friends and family for a whole year and the fact that you would have to integrate into a culture far different to what we know. It just isn't as lucrative for me at the moment, but it might be the only option in the future.

I would have to consider doing an Instructor's course to get a job, but I dont want to push my study loan beyond limits I can't afford to pay back. It is a tough ball-game at the moment, but I am sure everything will work out for the better. Hang in there !

Hi gents. I read the posts daily here, and i guess i do so because its interesting to see where the market is headed, what the demand is and what people at the start of their career are planning on doing with the experience they have. Or think they have. Here is the total truth, 99 % of all pilots i know have been a contract pilot. Those pilots have flown and worked in countries that afford both hours and a good salary for you to gain the knowledge to obtain that charter job or airline job you desire. Besides the flying, going outside the boundaries of the country gives you people skills , which right now sounds rediculous. However our entire career is based on crm. Which is not as robotic as it sounds. After somewhat mastering the machine you fly on, the rest is all people skills.

Let me assure you, by doing your cpl and getting the atp subjects doesnt automatically give you the right to a job here in sunny south africa. Its the first step. Its the first step in order for next and so on and so on. Dont be that guy that demands a job he is very little qualified for and go and earn your place in places that gives the most experience. Doin an instructors rating is great but its not the last place you will work, do more , see more. Take your cv and that rating you have now knock on doors ask and find out physically shaking someone’s hand look them in the eye present yourself
And get it done. That job is not coming to you. Infact by the time you have worked up the courage to finally go and do it. Someone else already did that and you might have lost the perfect opportunity to get that job.

With 250 hours all you need is experience. Get after it
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Re: Job For 250 hour? (Frozen Atpl)

Unread post by RG Le Roux » Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:00 pm

Jokoteabag wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:27 am
DUTCHIE161 wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:39 am
I am in a similar position as you. I have 270 hours, frozen ATP, University degree and also a Beechcraft 1900 rating.

I am sending out CV's but haven't been getting the replies I'm hoping for. I am also considering the Cathay Pacific option, but there are certain aspects that make me think otherwise. The fact that they will keep you as a Second Officer for up to 4 years, being far away from friends and family for a whole year and the fact that you would have to integrate into a culture far different to what we know. It just isn't as lucrative for me at the moment, but it might be the only option in the future.

I would have to consider doing an Instructor's course to get a job, but I dont want to push my study loan beyond limits I can't afford to pay back. It is a tough ball-game at the moment, but I am sure everything will work out for the better. Hang in there !

Hi gents. I read the posts daily here, and i guess i do so because its interesting to see where the market is headed, what the demand is and what people at the start of their career are planning on doing with the experience they have. Or think they have. Here is the total truth, 99 % of all pilots i know have been a contract pilot. Those pilots have flown and worked in countries that afford both hours and a good salary for you to gain the knowledge to obtain that charter job or airline job you desire. Besides the flying, going outside the boundaries of the country gives you people skills , which right now sounds rediculous. However our entire career is based on crm. Which is not as robotic as it sounds. After somewhat mastering the machine you fly on, the rest is all people skills.

Let me assure you, by doing your cpl and getting the atp subjects doesnt automatically give you the right to a job here in sunny south africa. Its the first step. Its the first step in order for next and so on and so on. Dont be that guy that demands a job he is very little qualified for and go and earn your place in places that gives the most experience. Doin an instructors rating is great but its not the last place you will work, do more , see more. Take your cv and that rating you have now knock on doors ask and find out physically shaking someone’s hand look them in the eye present yourself
And get it done. That job is not coming to you. Infact by the time you have worked up the courage to finally go and do it. Someone else already did that and you might have lost the perfect opportunity to get that job.

With 250 hours all you need is experience. Get after it
What this gentleman said^^
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Re: Job For 250 hour? (Frozen Atpl)

Unread post by Flymachine » Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:58 pm

Jokoteabag wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:39 am
Hi gents. I read the posts daily here, and i guess i do so because its interesting to see where the market is headed, what the demand is and what people at the start of their career are planning on doing with the experience they have. Or think they have. Here is the total truth, 99 % of all pilots i know have been a contract pilot. Those pilots have flown and worked in countries that afford both hours and a good salary for you to gain the knowledge to obtain that charter job or airline job you desire. Besides the flying, going outside the boundaries of the country gives you people skills , which right now sounds rediculous. However our entire career is based on crm. Which is not as robotic as it sounds. After somewhat mastering the machine you fly on, the rest is all people skills.

Let me assure you, by doing your cpl and getting the atp subjects doesnt automatically give you the right to a job here in sunny south africa. Its the first step. Its the first step in order for next and so on and so on. Dont be that guy that demands a job he is very little qualified for and go and earn your place in places that gives the most experience. Doin an instructors rating is great but its not the last place you will work, do more , see more. Take your cv and that rating you have now knock on doors ask and find out physically shaking someone’s hand look them in the eye present yourself
And get it done. That job is not coming to you. Infact by the time you have worked up the courage to finally go and do it. Someone else already did that and you might have lost the perfect opportunity to get that job.

With 250 hours all you need is experience. Get after it
+1

I have 2900Hrs TT, Full ATPL, fair amount of PIC twin turbine (1300Hrs) some on the 1900 (600Hrs) and I'm leaving the country and my wife again, to go fly in some extremely hostile and dangerous sh#t holes up in Africa (haven't been home permanently for 6 years).

Different hours, same boat...I wouldn't be so fussy if I was you, or possibly look at another industry.

4 years in HK on a new license, with barely any flying experience, sitting in the flight deck of a 777... sounds like an absolute pleasure to me.

Just saying
My Favourite Thing About People Is Their Dogs.

Humble professional seeking employment:
- SACAA ATPL Fixed Wing (2900 TT)
- Twin Turbine (1300 PIC, 600 on Medium Cat A/C)
- Instructor II
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Re: Job For 250 hour? (Frozen Atpl)

Unread post by Jack Welles » Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:09 pm

Flymachine wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:58 pm
I have 2900Hrs TT, Full ATPL, fair amount of PIC twin turbine (1300Hrs) some on the 1900 (600Hrs) and I'm leaving the country and my wife again, to go fly in some extremely hostile and dangerous sh#t holes up in Africa (haven't been home permanently for 6 years).

Different hours, same boat...I wouldn't be so fussy if I was you, or possibly look at another industry.

4 years in HK on a new license, with barely any flying experience, sitting in the flight deck of a 777... sounds like an absolute pleasure to me. Just saying
That's a reality check if ever there was one and applies not only to this thread but is salutary information for the people who were asking about becoming a pilot on borrowed money in some other threads.
Jack Welles (thriller_author pen name)
https://www.amazon.com/Jack-Welles/e/B073VJQTTX
Eddie Haynes-Smart
Textbook - "The Lore of Negotiation"
http://www.loreofnegotiation.com
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Re: Job For 250 hour? (Frozen Atpl)

Unread post by southside » Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:47 pm

Flymachine has it 100% Pilotberry,I respect that instruction is not for you, nothing worse than an hour pushing instructor who does not care about the student. BUT, then it is not about 'preffering' charter. You take what you can get to climb the ladder. There is also no such thing as a frozen atpl. You are nowhere near an ATP.

DUTCHIE161, if you are complaining about working conditions you dont have the passion. Sorry, but it is true.You have the wrong attitude my friend. You need to wake up and smell the QNH felt by other aspiring pilots. I am sorry that it is not 'lucritive' enough for you. Poor you sitting in an Airbus/Boeing second officer position with a fresh comm for 4 years seing the world and having to put up with other cultures. Do you have any idea how long it takes for most pilots to get even a sniff of the pointy end of an airliner, what they have to go through to get there? It upsets me when I see these walk in the door pilots wanting everything to be posh. Its hard graft to get to the top. And it is such in any industry. Pay your dues,suck it up or get out the cockpit.
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Re: Job For 250 hour? (Frozen Atpl)

Unread post by vhon » Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:14 am

I have 236 hours , ATPL written , B190 rating (completed almost two years ago now) and experience in operations/admin as of recent . I did most of my instructors rating last year then had a better opportunity to work in flight operations and cut the rating short . Fast forward a year I am browsing the market due to uncertainty at my current company . All I can say is if you have the funds available go do the rating even though you don't want to instruct . Instructors ratings are good to have and their will always be work if you decide thats what you want to do . look at things at a different perspective aswell . Sometimes we live in a box and only see what is closely around us , climb out of the box and look at the broader situation .

Getting the CPL and the exams and the rating was the easy part , the hard part is getting the experience required for an ATPL license . Seize any opportunity that comes your way and see it as a step towards greater things , even if it is not a flying job or "insignificant" piston time... it is something .


All we can do is give you advice but ultimately the dicision is yours to make . Don't shoot to high but don't be affraid to put yourself out their .

Good luck ,

Vhon
You can have the talent or the tools , but if you are not willing to learn or work hard that talent is wasted .
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Re: Job For 250 hour? (Frozen Atpl)

Unread post by Nicolaas206 » Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:20 am

DUTCHIE161 wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:39 am
I am also considering the Cathay Pacific option, but there are certain aspects that make me think otherwise. The fact that they will keep you as a Second Officer for up to 4 years, being far away from friends and family for a whole year and the fact that you would have to integrate into a culture far different to what we know. It just isn't as lucrative for me at the moment, but it might be the only option in the future.
To give you some info about Cathay and HK:

Yes it takes very long to upgrade to JFO at the moment, but while you are a SO you will have 15 - 20 days off PER MONTH. You can request flights and swap your flights with other pilots. In a way you can almost build your own roster. I don't know your circumstances, but I doubt there is a better option than Cathay for a low-time, unmarried, childless guy/gal (at least for us Saffers).

Not sure why you will be away from family for a year? You will do a 8 week course in Adelaide and then head to HK for more training. Your staff travel kicks in 6 month after starting in HK. That gives you unlimited cheap flights on CX to go home, and many other carriers. You also get one set of return tickets to anywhere on the CX network for those first 6 months, so you can go home way before 1 year.

Do not think of HK as mainland China. Even though it is technically part of China, there is a big difference. There are a lot of expats, mostly Brits, French, Aussies, Canadians and a lot of Saffers too. Majority of the locals can speak English, all the signs are in English, lots of western type restaurants and bars. Also, everything actually works here, unlike SA (no loadshedding 8) )

Of course there are negatives as well - very expensive here, crowded, very hot and humid in summer, lack of space. CX also has its own problems (Pprune will make that very clear, although don't spend too much time there or believe everything they say). They have cut back on benefits over the last decade or 2. Most of the first-world guys here complain and want to go back home, but us pilots will complain no matter who we work for. In the end of the day you can't compare it to SA and most of the Saffers I know here are happy. Stay here 7 years and get a HK passport.

CX and HK isn't for everyone, but for the young low-time Saffer I do not see any better opportunities. You, or anyone else, can PM me if you want more info.

Cheers :D
Character is how you treat those who can do nothing for you.
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Re: Job For 250 hour? (Frozen Atpl)

Unread post by andycpl » Mon Mar 18, 2019 9:57 am

Flugmaour wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:42 pm
Pilotberry wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:25 pm
I prefer charter , but the problem is... I haven't found something that is convenient with my hours, it's really tough with so few hours :?
That is probably why you haven't found anything yet....
I might be wrong, and if I am I do apologise, but you sound way too picky with what you want. Unfortunately with your hours you don't have the luxury to choose what is convenient for you. You kind of need to take what is available.
I second this.
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Re: Job For 250 hour? (Frozen Atpl)

Unread post by Wilco » Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:18 pm

Sigh.....
Having a hard time finding a 206 job; yet, some think it's good idea to apply to fly a WB for CX with an "experience" level that barely meets the minimum requirements for a 206 gig.....
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Re: Job For 250 hour? (Frozen Atpl)

Unread post by Flugmaour » Mon Mar 18, 2019 9:14 pm

Wilco wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:18 pm
Sigh.....
Having a hard time finding a 206 job; yet, some think it's good idea to apply to fly a WB for CX with an "experience" level that barely meets the minimum requirements for a 206 gig.....
Exactly! It has to be a millennial thing... I see it every day in the flight deck as well. Youngsters that just want everything easy, complaining about how "hard" they had to work to get into the right hand seat and then complaining if they don't get an upgrade within a year or two... Sad state of affairs.....

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