Cholesterol - Risk myth?

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rainier
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Re: Cholesterol - Risk myth?

Unread post by rainier » Mon Feb 29, 2016 9:31 am

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Re: Cholesterol - Risk myth?

Unread post by rainier » Mon Feb 29, 2016 9:32 am

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Re: Cholesterol - Risk myth?

Unread post by rainier » Mon Feb 29, 2016 9:33 am

Jeeze - how does one delete accidental duplicated posts on Avcom ?
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Re: Cholesterol - Risk myth?

Unread post by rainier » Wed Mar 02, 2016 12:09 pm

OK, let me start with a disclaimer. I am not a medical doctor. This text here is an observational study on myself and I make no claims other than those pertaining to myself. Please obtain advice from your physician should you want to try any of this first. Also, educate yourself as to what all of this is doing – it's all there and the references I am giving you contain detailed and easy to digest information.

First, here is what I am taking:
I am taking a therapeutic dose based on my severe starting condition. Once certain criteria are met, this will change to a maintenance dose. This will remain for the rest of my life. We are fixing what is mostly a deficiency related problem (with or without genetics as a contributing factor) – not a disease as such.

Dosages of the following are shown per day taken in three equal measures at meal times.
Vitamin C as ascorbic acid (pure ascorbic): 9000mg.
Vitamin A: 7mg
Vitamin B6: 150mg
Vitamin E: 900mg
Folic acid: 1200mg
L-Arginine: 600mg
L-Lysine: 9000mg
L=Proline: 500mg
As maintenance dose the above can be halved. The above ingredients are not easy to get in the correct types and would require many pills. We are lucky in that we can buy a locally packaged product at very reasonable cost. It is called CholesterolEase (NOT the product by the same name sold by Vital which is completely different). The name is a bit misleading as combating Cholesterol is not the primary function of this product – that does happen but tends to take 4-8 months and is a secondary effect. I get mine at Dischem but you can also order online.

The above is augmented by the following, taken twice daily (for the rest of my life).
Lecithin granules, one table spoon (I get this at Spar). This one is important, don't skip it.
LinSeed (FlaxSeed), one tea spoon (Also at Spar)
Niacin 500mg (Vitamin B3). Do NOT take the “flush free” - that does absolutely nothing.
Magnesium glycinate 1000mg
Omega 3 1000mg

Once daily (for rest of life):
Vitamin K2 in the MK-7 form. 100 mcd (Micrograms).
This one is highly relevant – if you don't do any of the above, do at least this one. Excellent research released last year (Maastricht study) shows conclusively dramatic reduction of arterial hardening in all subjects. MK7 in particular is required in tiny quantities to complete your calcium metabolism – in short, it is responsible for transporting calcium to where it is needed. Lacking this it ends up deposited in your arteries. Better still, re-introduce it and it removes the calcium from your arteries. This little, relatively recent discovered mineral used to be in our diet – but we have all but engineered it out, quite unintentionally.

Everything else you need should be available if you follow even just a halfway reasonable diet.

Get your heart at least twice a week to 80% of target rate for a few minutes (220 – your age as a rough figure) and if possible, to 100% briefly. If you don't have – buy one of the many pulse rate monitors you can now easily get. Jog, cycle or do whatever to get there – but get there.

Now to the reference. What does all of this do exactly ? Well, it needs a book. There is a lot to say. We need to delve into biochemistry a bit. Luckily I found such a book just last week that explains it all (except for the K2 which is too new for the current edition). It's cheap and you can get it through google books, also in digital form (I paid around R113 – well worth it).
You can find the full text of the Maastricht study (K2) and other studies that lead to this one using Google, I managed to download a copy at the U.S. Cardiologists associations website (they have a treasure trove of research papers, a nice resource).

The book is called “The 8 week+ program to reverse cardiovascular disease”, ISBN 978-1-944014-67-4 in paperback – or get it via google books.
I would recommend you have a read if you are interested in this – the book is a start to finish account of all that is known and addresses everything relevant and how it works, including exercise and diet. Some of it is slightly outdated in my opinion (mostly the diet side) but nevertheless as a whole well presented and readable.
The book of course also contains references to the relevant research on the various topics so you can follow up yourself.

In a nutshell, what we are doing is attacking the problem from all angles at the same time, rather just focusing on one or two factors. This is “throwing everything we've got” at the issue – almost military style.

Browsing on the net for results yields a remarkable number of glowing reports – this in itself caused me to ignore this until just 8 weeks ago. Things just can't be that good. Right ?

I had my back to the wall three months ago – I needed another, urgent triple bypass (I had a quad one 13 years ago, I am 55 now). I declined.
Do you know what happened this Sunday ? Do you know Cape Point ? Walking the steep path up to the lighthouse with the stairs at the end ? Well, I RAN up there, including all of the stairs. No really – I ran all the way, as fast as my legs would carry me. I have never done that. Out of breath – yes, but quick recovery. No chest pains, no symptoms. You bet this works !

Why am I bothering mentioning all of this ? I feel strongly about this based only on my own observation – keeping in mind the less than favorable starting condition. In some ways I am the perfect guinea pig to test this. I feel this needs to be more widely known. Yes, it is not as convenient as popping a pill once a day – which for many works fine. For those, like myself, that are stuck with a problem, can't take the pills or they don't help enough – there is another way – and one that apparently works much better too.

To close – please discuss this with your doctor before embarking on this. You will be using high dosages of certain vitamins, amino-acids and supplements. Understand why you are taking them and what they do. Make sure this will not cause you any harm and is relevant to your condition (it's not going to fix a faulty heart valve for instance).
Monitor yourself to check progress – get yourself a blood pressure monitor, do cholesterol checks regularly and if you can, do a stress ECG at intervals. If your doc is nice to you he may also do CT scans at (longer) intervals to check your calcification status or do high resolution ultrasounds. You can also monitor progress though your optician – the arteries at the back of your eye also suffer from arteriosclerosis and this can easily be seen and photos taken. Do that at intervals (say six months).

Some notes:

Your doc may be concerned about high doses of ascorbic acid (the base molecule of Vitamin C) causing kidney stones. This is based on the assumption that your bodies conversion of the ascorbic into oxelate may cause one of the four types of kidney stones (calcium oxelate). It would appear that that is valid for small amounts of oxelate and large amounts of calcium but the reverse seems true if you have large amounts of oxelate – this may actually dissolve these stones (think of mud as an example – water and sand, a little water and a lot of sand results in mud clumps – lots of water however dissolves the clumps).

High dose Vitamin C can upset your stomach – it does not seem to do that for me so I'm lucky. It it does for you you can consider smaller doses spread evenly through the day.

Under no circumstances use high doses of Vitamin C / Calcium combinations in any shape or form. That is dangerous. In fact, whatever you do – you have enough calcium as it is – it's just in the wrong place - do not supplement in any way with calcium.

You are taking large amounts of vitamin E – this has strong anti-blood clotting properties. If you decide to quit – ween yourself off the Vitamin E over a week or two – don't go cold turkey as this may cause blood clots due to sudden withdrawal (risk may be small but still...).

If you are on Warfarin – be aware that this disconnects your calcium metabolism rendering K2 useless (it's purpose is to disrupt the similar Vitamin K (now called K1) – which is responsible for your blood clotting mechanism). Talk to your doctor !!!

Finally, if you have a qualifying condition, decide to try this and find it works for you – spread the word.

Rainier
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Re: Cholesterol - Risk myth?

Unread post by Kiewiet Vlok » Wed Mar 02, 2016 7:29 pm

Rainer
i am chiping in halfway and think statins,cholesterol myth is the con of the century!,
Japan has chance theire dieet regulations because a low Cholesterol give a sharp rise in all cause mortality i think they say between 4 and 6
just look at facks taking your statins 65 people for 5 years to make 1 a diabeet and to provent 1 heart attack ( not mortality)
if you do not " twist" statisticks then cholesterol lowering drugs does not help a pt in 98% crazy!
if you look at Spain heart study you can prevent 30 cardiac deaths by eating right

My feeling is that we kill the fireman (cholesterol) be cause were a fire is there is a dam fireman. ( the problem might be oxinated cholesterol from sugers)

For my self: i do HIT TRAINING / tabata. and cut all sugers ( tim noakes in a way) krill iol niacene and kardio disprin also look at vit D

If i do not want to end up like Tim Noakes I have to tell you : that the heart consensis say drink your statins ! but go and see how many on the panil benefit financialy because of statins

Sanity very slowly returns and more voices go up " discuss with your patiants statins might not be right for them""

the cholesterol mania is so high i have seen pilots being send for angiograms because their cholestrol is high!!!!! wich is not without severe risks

very important if you have familial hipercholesteremy you must take Statins
midway is start to be healthy as above do your cholesterol profile, and ? homosistien,highly selective crp if there is doubt an kardiac perfusion scan choose your kardioligist very carefully
"
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Re: Cholesterol - Risk myth?

Unread post by rainier » Thu Mar 03, 2016 10:07 am

Kiewiet,
I agree with what you say in principle.
But I am not on a mission to vilify statins. They have their uses and let's not forget that most seem to tolerate them well.
Yes, all cause mortality directly or indirectly caused by long term statin use is a very concerning issue and the lid is coming off this now - expect a nice round of class action suites in the U.S. if history is anything to go by.

Look, let's face it - being able to prescribe a pill and backing this up with an easy to measure result (the cholesterol test we all know so well) is very compelling. It streamlines the whole process. I think we all understand that.

The alternative proposed here requires a lot of dedication and effort by the patient - again, let's face it - who wants to do this. Me included. I'm only doing it as I got a "wake up call". Since the benefits appear so rapidly it motivates to continue and that is what I will do.

To put it another way: all previous medication taken made me feel worse (much worse in the end) - this is the first time I take something that makes me feel better - a lot better. My doctor thinks it may just be symptomatic - you know what, I'll even take that...

It is easy to blame everything on a big conspiracy - I don't think that is the case. Rather look at how the medical provider chain has changed in the past decades. The doctor of old that would study and even experiment on himself has long gone. We now have a organized and tightly controlled medical industry and treatments are streamlined by following "accepted practices". Understand that the doctor at the end of the line has no choice but to follow what the medical council would approve. If he does not and something goes wrong - I am sure you have noticed the latest bout of law firm ads on Dstv - the lawyers are trolling for anything that could be interpreted as medical malpractice. I don't like saying this - but if I'd be a doctor I'd be very, very careful what I say or prescribe - even if that means having to bite my tongue hard.
It's not the doctors fault. It's the system that is somewhat less than perfect. I don't think our little posts will change any of that - but they may still help individuals that, like me, ran out of options. I myself have benefited from posts like this so I'm only too happy to spread the word.

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Re: Cholesterol - Risk myth?

Unread post by priester » Thu Mar 03, 2016 10:08 am

Jeez Rainier, when do you get time to work. :D

Ps. Beware of DOC Google, Noakes and other clever okes :D

STATINS uber alles 8)
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Re: Cholesterol - Risk myth?

Unread post by Walid » Thu Mar 03, 2016 10:15 am

Rainier, have you ever had chelation ?
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Re: Cholesterol - Risk myth?

Unread post by rainier » Thu Mar 03, 2016 11:34 am

Walid wrote:Rainier, have you ever had chelation ?
No. Not as such. I have looked into it but don't support it as monotherapy. It is clear that it can have benefits but research does show that it is not the answer - but rather part of the answer. There is some controversy as well and I like to look at all sides as that is the only way I can get to a balanced view.
If you read the book I gave the reference on you will note that part of the pharmacological action of some of the ingredients indeed perform chelation activities among others and there is a discussion on the subject.

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Re: Cholesterol - Risk myth?

Unread post by rainier » Thu Mar 03, 2016 11:52 am

priester wrote:Jeez Rainier, when do you get time to work. :D
Well, I admit that this had me side tracked for a few weeks while I stuck my head into hundreds of study results, research papers and medical journals. I had to learn a lot of things I did not understand, Luckily Google is ever ready with some help - I'm sure you could easily learn everything you need to pass a theoretical medical exam to qualify as a GP using just Google alone. Of course - just the theoretical side - you might have to dig out some fresh cadavers to get some practical experience :wink:

BUT - I'm making up for time lost. The statins wrapped my brain in a fog (best way I can put it) - my short term memory was crap, I was tired all day, my work did suffer.
All of that is gone - I have written more software in the last few weeks than I did the whole of last year - I am no longer tired, I am motivated, my memory is back (short term memory is vital if you program) - in short, I am firing on all cylinders again. I have energy. I'm no longer "pap".

I know this all sounds too fantastic - but that's just the way it is.

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Re: Cholesterol - Risk myth?

Unread post by rainier » Thu Mar 03, 2016 3:28 pm

OK, this (my) part of this thread is getting a little out of hand but just for completeness I would like to write a bit more about chelation as it is relevant and has been mentioned.
Chelation is a method whereby selected chemicals are introduced to the serum either via IV or orally. This has its origins in the treatment of heavy metal poisoning where it is used with success. The idea is that you introduce a benign chemical that will bind to the offending chemical rendering it either harmless or aids in its removal by your bodies natural processes.
There is a lot of controversy when it comes to using this to "cure" arteriosclerosis - the idea is to draw the calcium from the plaque.
Luckily, a nice study has very recently been completed by perhaps the most respected institution - the NIH. The study is called TACT (Trail to Access Chelation Therapy) It was carefully done, double blind, a good duration and it was clever enough to provide high dose mineral supplementation (Vitamins etc) to avoid some of the more nasty effects of the therapy which have been the main bone of contention.
The results have been published and it is very nice to see that we have yet another treatment that works and can at least equal if not better the results of even the best statin drugs available,

In the therapy I am using the mega-dose Vitamin C acts as chelate and has been shown to perform similar - in addition, and to a much higher degree the MK7 form of K2 does the same - just in a perfectly natural unforced way (see Maastricht study).

Please realize that chelation of calcium does just that - nothing else. You still need to attend to several other issues for a successful overall treatment that addresses every malady and cause. Calcium deposits are a result - not the cause. It's good to address the result - but even better if you also attend to the causes.

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Re: Cholesterol - Risk myth?

Unread post by vanjast3 » Fri Mar 04, 2016 9:35 am

There's a book in the library The Great Cholesterol Con
http://drmalcolmkendrick.org/books-by-d ... terol-con/

Interesting read.. provides a bit of insight into drug research and marketing of the big pharmaceutical companies, and how they 'manipulate' research results to their benefit... Pretty damming.
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Re: Cholesterol - Risk myth?

Unread post by priester » Fri Mar 04, 2016 2:23 pm

Rainier, with all that Vit C you don't need to worry about the moenoesipalitys excessive use of chlorine :lol:
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Re: Cholesterol - Risk myth?

Unread post by rainier » Fri Mar 04, 2016 3:10 pm

priester wrote:Rainier, with all that Vit C you don't need to worry about the moenoesipalitys excessive use of chlorine :lol:
I don't anyway - got my own borehole with water quality certified. It could not be better. I live on the upper slopes of the Helderberg so it's effectively mountain spring water.

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Re: Cholesterol - Risk myth?

Unread post by Fransw » Sun Mar 06, 2016 8:33 pm

I like the Tim Naokes diet the best! Fatty foods, butter, full cream everything....... I lost weight , stronger, faster than ever, lower cholesterol, blood press, etc etc . Works for me.

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