Medicals - You might lose your PPL

Medicine and other human performance related issues.

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HHFISCHER
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Medicals - You might lose your PPL

Unread post by HHFISCHER » Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:45 pm

Just did my medical. New audio compliance requirement as of 29. October. Many of us (hunters, seniors etc.) have some sort of hearing impediment. Not that it ever bothered me. Never (!) did I have to ask ATC because I could not hear what they were saying. The geniuses who designed my radio even threw in a volume knob. Plus I use an ANR headset with separate volume controls for each side (never did I have to use this feature). If your audiogram is not within limits you have to visit an audiologist (at great cost) who will do a theoretical exercise. If the powers there be don't like this either you are compelled to attend a session in a Boeing simulator at ORT (at even greater cost - and this every year). I hear plenty of Chinamen in the air not responding to ATC calls, not because of bad hearing but because they did not understand ATC phonetically. Some genius doctor at the CAA was so bored that he introduced this new requirement under the guise of safety. Has nothing to do with reality and most likely the chap never spent time in a small aircraft doing radio work. I can migrate to a NPL, but I feel sorry for you guys who need a PPL. Might be the end of your flying or the purchase of an expensive (and unnecessary) hearing aid. Massive protest by the pilots via Aero Club, Media, AOPA etc. might be called for.
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Re: You might lose your PPL

Unread post by Chalkie » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:34 pm

There is a thread under Aviation Medical: Deaf Pilots. I have been dealing with this problem for some months now, unfortunately our CAA are applying tea-time rules again and ignoring the CATs and CARs.

Initially CAA contacted the DAME who did my medical and told him my hearing did not comply with the standards required. (Class 1 and 2 medicals have the same audio standard.) He informed the CAA Doctor that he was aware of this, so had done the whisper test; which I passed. The CAA Dr. said this was not good enough (although it is catered for and allowed by ICAO, the CATs and the CARs.)

The DAME then asked if I could do a flight test with a DFE who could then submit a report? No, not good enough. (Again; catered for and allowed by ICAO, the CATs and the CARs.) Then the run-around started, Audiologist report, ENT; another more comprehensive audio test with speech recognition. All these did was to confirm the already know problem.

Dr Mbatha and I then exchange many emails; pushing the CAA line that I should fork out about R10 000 for the hire of the Comair B738 simulator, plus Sim Instructor, plus CAA DAME, plus CAA ENT. All for what exactly?

It is a long story; on principle I refuse to rent a B738 simulator because ICAO says it is important that the aircraft used is an aircraft normally flown by the pilot, one which he is rated on, current on and valid on. None of these apply to the B738.

The last line of the SACATs (Audio section) says: Alternatively the pilot can be tested in an aircraft he is current on, rated on and valid on. (Words to that effect.) I have requested this many times to no avail.

At present I am dealing with the matter via legal channels, so if any others want to join the litigation, PM me.

The best part was about two weeks before my medical expired, the CAA called the PE DAME to tell him my medical had been revoked. To this day, CAA have not informed me.
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Re: You might lose your PPL

Unread post by GL » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:55 pm

I am currently grounded as well. Not only did I fail the audio test (but passed the whisper test), but apparently my ECG has changed and I have to get a cardiologist to do a resting and effort ECG - and can't find one in Cape Town who will give me an appointment this year!
When - or if - I get this sorted out I will have forgotten how to fly. :evil:
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Re: You might lose your PPL

Unread post by V5 - LEO » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:57 pm

...was the medical tests not relaxed to be done by your normal GP - or is this for certain classes only?
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Re: Medicals - You might lose your PPL

Unread post by southside » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:04 pm

This sounds very unfortunate.

Chalkie, is it not possible to quote the relevant CAT's and CARS to this CAA Dr and demand that he /she accept this?

If you have done things in accordance with the regs, how could this CAA dr decide to apply his/her own rules?
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Re: Medicals - You might lose your PPL

Unread post by edwoodza » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:50 pm

Make a stand and say NO to Tea Time rules
Use CAA system back on them.
Tea Time rules are illegal and unethical. So report their asses.
CAA can't legally enforce something NOT in the law. (they may think they can but their Quality dept in the end will shut it down)
BUT
be sure to supply proof of if and attitude and where the person you deal with breaks CAA Values (find them in non compliance of CAA values)
Report to the manager and then the whistle blowers line.

Yes CAA will try ignore it but the more who report same thing against same inspectors then shows a bigger picture they are forced to deal with.

Sadly GA in ZA rolls over and tolerates bad behavior from CAA staff because they fear the repercussions.
Only when we draw the line and so no more BS can anything change
till then silence is the same as a rubber stamp of approval.
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Re: Medicals - You might lose your PPL

Unread post by Lood » Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:20 pm

It’s now that I miss Mauler even more ...
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Re: Medicals - You might lose your PPL

Unread post by Chalkie » Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:43 pm

southside wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:04 pm
This sounds very unfortunate.

Chalkie, is it not possible to quote the relevant CAT's and CARS to this CAA Dr and demand that he /she accept this?

If you have done things in accordance with the regs, how could this CAA dr decide to apply his/her own rules?
As said in my post, many emails were written and phone calls made / received. Unfortunately T-time rules (in their opinion) seem to trump CATs and CARs and they (the CAA group) will not budge. Pilots must fork out the bucks and do it THEIR way. Laws do not count.

Tha constitution allows us to appeal to a higher authority; unfortunately AIM (Aviation Institution of Medicine) has been rolled into the CAA. As a result the CAA are Judge, Jury and Executioner. Hardly democratic...

As said, I am busy with legal action to force the CAA to abide by the CATs and CARs.

Nothing more, nothing less.
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Re: Medicals - You might lose your PPL

Unread post by southside » Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:31 pm

Im sorry you have to go through that. Its horrendous!
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Re: Medicals - You might lose your PPL

Unread post by Robert » Thu Nov 22, 2018 12:02 pm

Just failed my class2 medical too due to hearing. Will have to wait and see now.
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Re: Medicals - You might lose your PPL

Unread post by Chalkie » Mon Nov 26, 2018 7:38 am

Robert wrote:
Thu Nov 22, 2018 12:02 pm
Just failed my class2 medical too due to hearing. Will have to wait and see now.
You will be contacted by the CAA (some time in the future, no rush there) and told to submit an ENT report, For this you will have to go to your GP and have him book an appointment at the specialist. You will then be told to submit an audiogram with speech recognition, another visit to your GP. After these two reports are submitted; the bills will roll in from the CAA.

About R10 000 for Comair B738 simulator + Sim Instructor + CAA DAME + CAA ENT + 2 CAA Inspectors...

All this BS whereas you could do a flight test in an aircraft you are rated on, current on and valid on, as allowed by the CATs and CARs. But NO...
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Re: Medicals - You might lose your PPL

Unread post by Robert » Mon Nov 26, 2018 4:34 pm

Thanks Chalkie. I just do a bit of flying around the block every now and then. Will think about it while I wait.

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Re: Medicals - You might lose your PPL

Unread post by Artfly » Sat Dec 15, 2018 2:42 pm

Crazy times,i am also now worried about my upcoming medical ! [-o<
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Re: Medicals - You might lose your PPL

Unread post by edwoodza » Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:52 am

Gets worse.
CAA just pulled my medical (10 months after having it done)
Quoting the fact i had depression 12 years ago after vehicle accident and GP put me on them (which i was then cleared for my CAA themselves after was forced to submit psychiatrist eval and they re-instated it since) not been on meds in 12 years.

Their story is they have introduced new "mood disorder protocol" which NOW requires anyone who has EVER had depression to submit Psychiatric evaluation to CAA every 6 months, yes PPL as well.

I guess by definition since we all dealing with CAA we need our heads read but really.

OR this is another CAA vindictive personal attack after reporting multiple inspectors corrupt actions.
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Re: Medicals - You might lose your PPL

Unread post by homebuilt » Wed Dec 19, 2018 7:55 pm

I have just been to my AME for my medical renewal. I have had some medical issues this year so have not flown one hour. The AME then opens my file on his computer only for both of us to discover that my flight medical has been blocked. We dont know from when it was blocked by the CAA but he cannot get to last years results on the computer. We can only deduce that it may have something to do with my hearing as two other local pilots have suffered the same fate. How was I supposed to know my medical was blocked if I was not notified? what if I had flown not knowing and had an accident?
Right lets move on to phase two. I get sent to an Audiologist for a test. The form she has to sign is a CAA form but has no space for the patients name or for the name of the Audiologist. Some of the questions asked do not even make sense to the testing officer and certainly do not apply to the test being done or necessary for this exercise. A MRI scan for tumors needs to be done according to the list of items to be signed off at a cost of some R 10 000. Where does all this B/S end? I wish I could remember the exact name for this form but it is some CAA audiology report form.
How many hoops does one have to jump through in order to get into your aircraft over the week-end and fly over the countryside? I dont want to collect and deliver passengers to FAOR or some other big airport. Just have some fun in my little aerie once or twice a week-end. Hells Bells man!!!

Careful guys. Someone is out to get us out there and put stumbling blocks in our path.

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