Hearing for class 2 and 4 medicals

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Re: Hearing for class 2 and 4 medicals

Unread post by Multirotordronepilot » Tue May 07, 2019 10:53 am

GL wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:05 am
Can anyone tell me whether the hearing requirements are the same for class 2 and 4?
Guy, the hearing requirements for class 1 through 4 are all 40db. So not only 2 and 4 equal but all 4 are in fact tested to the same level.
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Re: Hearing for class 2 and 4 medicals

Unread post by Chalkie » Tue May 07, 2019 3:08 pm

Multirotordronepilot wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 10:53 am
GL wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:05 am
Can anyone tell me whether the hearing requirements are the same for class 2 and 4?
Guy, the hearing requirements for class 1 through 4 are all 40db. So not only 2 and 4 equal but all 4 are in fact tested to the same level.
Not really. I will paste an excerpt from ICAO Doc 8984. The CATs and CARs are a cut and paste of this document. Flymed can comment further as Doc 8984 only covers Class 1, 2 and 3...

6.4 Class 2 Medical Assessment:
….
6.4.4 Hearing requirements
Note.— Attention is called to 2.7.1.3.1 on requirements for the issue of instrument rating to applicants who hold a
private pilot licence.
6.4.4.1 Applicants who are unable to hear an average conversational voice in a quiet room, using both ears, at a distance
of 2 m from the examiner and with the back turned to the examiner, shall be assessed as unfit.
6.4.4.2 When tested by pure-tone audiometry, an applicant with a hearing loss, in either ear separately, of more than
35 dB at any of the frequencies 500, 1 000 or 2 000 Hz, or more than 50 dB at 3 000 Hz, shall be assessed as unfit.

EDIT: I checked the CATs for audio requirements Class 4 medical hearing; same as ICAO...

http://caa.mylexisnexis.co.za/#


When tested by pure-tone audiometry, an applicant with a hearing loss in either ear separately, of more than 35 dB at any of the frequencies 500, 1 000 or 2 000 Hz, or more than 50 dB at 3 000 Hz, shall be assessed as unfit.
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Re: Hearing for class 2 and 4 medicals

Unread post by heisan » Tue May 07, 2019 3:26 pm

Class 4:
5.6 ENT system
(1) Applicant shall have no established medical history or clinical diagnosis of the following –
(a) any pathological process, acute or chronic, of the inner ear middle ear cavities or external ear canal;
(b) any unhealed (unclosed) perforation of the tympanic membranes, except that an applicant with a single dry perforation may be eligible for a certificate if the defect does not prevent compliance with the hearing standards;
(c) any chronic or serious recurrent obstruction of the Eustachian tubes;
(d) any serious or recurrent disturbance of the vestibular system;
(e) any obstruction to free nasal air entry on both sides;
(f) any serious malformation, or serious acute or chronic condition of the buccal cavity or upper respiratory tract; or
(g) any speech defect likely to interfere with the safe performance of duties in exercising the privileges of the licence;
(h) profound deafness may be considered medically fit if there is proven ability to communicate in the event of an emergency by speech or by using a device;
(i) applicant unable to communicate with assisted devices shall be considered medically unfit;
(j) the applicant shall be able to hear a whispered voice in a quiet room; and
(k) applicant to be referred to the Medical Assessor for consideration on a case-by-case basis.
Obviously some 'ands' and 'ors' missing in that - but that is fairly common for regs not copied from a reliable source.

Seems like:
1) it is possible for even a deaf person to get a Class 4 medical.
2) normally a whisper test is all that is required.
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Re: Hearing for class 2 and 4 medicals

Unread post by Iceberg » Tue May 07, 2019 3:39 pm

There is a free cellphone app "hearZA" which you can download to test your hearing - headphones required.
Follow the instructions and you can test yourself to see if you have a problem.
I don't know how scientific it is compared to a proper evaluation, but it seems quite good.
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Re: Hearing for class 2 and 4 medicals

Unread post by Multirotordronepilot » Tue May 07, 2019 5:12 pm

Chalkie wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 3:08 pm
Multirotordronepilot wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 10:53 am
GL wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:05 am
Can anyone tell me whether the hearing requirements are the same for class 2 and 4?
Guy, the hearing requirements for class 1 through 4 are all 40db. So not only 2 and 4 equal but all 4 are in fact tested to the same level.
Not really. I will paste an excerpt from ICAO Doc 8984. The CATs and CARs are a cut and paste of this document. Flymed can comment further as Doc 8984 only covers Class 1, 2 and 3...

6.4 Class 2 Medical Assessment:
….
6.4.4 Hearing requirements
Note.— Attention is called to 2.7.1.3.1 on requirements for the issue of instrument rating to applicants who hold a
private pilot licence.
6.4.4.1 Applicants who are unable to hear an average conversational voice in a quiet room, using both ears, at a distance
of 2 m from the examiner and with the back turned to the examiner, shall be assessed as unfit.
6.4.4.2 When tested by pure-tone audiometry, an applicant with a hearing loss, in either ear separately, of more than
35 dB at any of the frequencies 500, 1 000 or 2 000 Hz, or more than 50 dB at 3 000 Hz, shall be assessed as unfit.

EDIT: I checked the CATs for audio requirements Class 4 medical hearing; same as ICAO...

http://caa.mylexisnexis.co.za/#


When tested by pure-tone audiometry, an applicant with a hearing loss in either ear separately, of more than 35 dB at any of the frequencies 500, 1 000 or 2 000 Hz, or more than 50 dB at 3 000 Hz, shall be assessed as unfit.
In the last 7 days there has been a change to the medical protocols. My attempt to understand the differences for each class with only the testing standards in mind and verified by two independent DAME's showed that both tested to 40db for ALL certificate classes 1-4
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Re: Hearing for class 2 and 4 medicals

Unread post by Chalkie » Wed May 08, 2019 10:22 am

Multirotordronepilot wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 5:12 pm
In the last 7 days there has been a change to the medical protocols. My attempt to understand the differences for each class with only the testing standards in mind and verified by two independent DAME's showed that both tested to 40db for ALL certificate classes 1-4
MRDP, help me here... The previous law mentions a hearing loss of 35 and 50 db respectively.

Now you say the law is 40 db so at 3000 Hz it is more stringent?

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Re: Hearing for class 2 and 4 medicals

Unread post by heisan » Wed May 08, 2019 11:32 am

Multirotordronepilot wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 5:12 pm
In the last 7 days there has been a change to the medical protocols. My attempt to understand the differences for each class with only the testing standards in mind and verified by two independent DAME's showed that both tested to 40db for ALL certificate classes 1-4
Where did you get this information? I have reviewed the CATS and CARS as well as all recent proposed and promulgated changes, and can find nothing...
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Re: Hearing for class 2 and 4 medicals

Unread post by Multirotordronepilot » Wed May 08, 2019 12:13 pm

Chalkie wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 10:22 am
Multirotordronepilot wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 5:12 pm
In the last 7 days there has been a change to the medical protocols. My attempt to understand the differences for each class with only the testing standards in mind and verified by two independent DAME's showed that both tested to 40db for ALL certificate classes 1-4
MRDP, help me here... The previous law mentions a hearing loss of 35 and 50 db respectively.

Now you say the law is 40 db so at 3000 Hz it is more stringent?

Flymed?
Yes that is exactly what it means, a more stringent requirement. This is what the two doctors I consulted both indicated. One doc was my DAME and the other I chose randomly just for a comparison.
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Re: Hearing for class 2 and 4 medicals

Unread post by Multirotordronepilot » Wed May 08, 2019 12:16 pm

heisan wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 11:32 am
Multirotordronepilot wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 5:12 pm
In the last 7 days there has been a change to the medical protocols. My attempt to understand the differences for each class with only the testing standards in mind and verified by two independent DAME's showed that both tested to 40db for ALL certificate classes 1-4
Where did you get this information? I have reviewed the CATS and CARS as well as all recent proposed and promulgated changes, and can find nothing...
Yes you will struggle to find any reference to change which effects class 3 and 4 medicals for RPAS pilot candidates. I will go find the document issued by part 67 .
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Re: Hearing for class 2 and 4 medicals

Unread post by Multirotordronepilot » Wed May 08, 2019 4:06 pm

Sorry it took so long, I had some great momentum working on NY aircraft and forgot about everything else in the world. Here is a screen shot of the recent changes as gazetted as I don't know how to attach a PDF or if that's even possible.

@Chalkie I'm wondering about the 40db test standard as the protocols are as you posted but never the less the same for all as I said. But then why did two DAME's tell me they test at 40db ? They could not have both made the same mistake ........ Maybe I should give them a call back tomorrow and ask again.
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Re: Hearing for class 2 and 4 medicals

Unread post by heisan » Wed May 08, 2019 4:21 pm

Multirotordronepilot wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 4:06 pm
Sorry it took so long, I had some great momentum working on NY aircraft and forgot about everything else in the world. Here is a screen shot of the recent changes as gazetted as I don't know how to attach a PDF or if that's even possible.
That did not change anything. Which class of medical was required used to be part of the individual license sections, but is now consolidated in Part 67. Nothing change w.r.t. which medical class was required, or the standards for each medical class.
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Re: Hearing for class 2 and 4 medicals

Unread post by Multirotordronepilot » Wed May 08, 2019 6:22 pm

heisan wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 4:21 pm
Multirotordronepilot wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 4:06 pm
Sorry it took so long, I had some great momentum working on NY aircraft and forgot about everything else in the world. Here is a screen shot of the recent changes as gazetted as I don't know how to attach a PDF or if that's even possible.
That did not change anything. Which class of medical was required used to be part of the individual license sections, but is now consolidated in Part 67. Nothing change w.r.t. which medical class was required, or the standards for each medical class.
I knew at some point you would prove that you're human. :wink:
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Re: Hearing for class 2 and 4 medicals

Unread post by Chalkie » Wed May 08, 2019 6:25 pm

Multirotordronepilot wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 4:06 pm
@Chalkie I'm wondering about the 40db test standard as the protocols are as you posted but never the less the same for all as I said. But then why did two DAME's tell me they test at 40db ? They could not have both made the same mistake ........ Maybe I should give them a call back tomorrow and ask again.
Perhaps therein lies the confusion. The DAME's say they test AT 40 db and the law says a loss of hearing of etc...

The law refers to a loss of hearing from a specific value (for 'perfect' hearing) what the top line / standard is; I have no idea.

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Re: Hearing for class 2 and 4 medicals

Unread post by Flymed » Wed May 08, 2019 6:40 pm

The newly published regulations is not yet ready to be followed as it is contradictory in lots of places.
But the old standard of 35dB is actually more stringent than the new 40dB indication. That said, I have not yet studied the specifics of the regs because the contradictions needs to be sorted out before anyone can use it.
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Re: Hearing for class 2 and 4 medicals

Unread post by heisan » Wed May 08, 2019 7:26 pm

Multirotordronepilot wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 6:22 pm
heisan wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 4:21 pm
Multirotordronepilot wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 4:06 pm
Sorry it took so long, I had some great momentum working on NY aircraft and forgot about everything else in the world. Here is a screen shot of the recent changes as gazetted as I don't know how to attach a PDF or if that's even possible.
That did not change anything. Which class of medical was required used to be part of the individual license sections, but is now consolidated in Part 67. Nothing change w.r.t. which medical class was required, or the standards for each medical class.
I knew at some point you would prove that you're human. :wink:
Ah, I see there were some changes... A few licenses got reduced medical requirements - but RPL somehow got bumped up. It was more likely than not a typo, but due to the poor performance of the various representative bodies at CARCOM, you are now stuck with it...
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