Value of Aerobatic Rating

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GavinStewart172
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Value of Aerobatic Rating

Unread post by GavinStewart172 » Wed Feb 10, 2016 11:08 am

Hi All

I have been presented the opportunity to get an aerobatic rating on a Yak-52, which will include getting a war-bird rating. Are there any pilots who can give an opinion on the value that the ratings will offer ? Also, if you have had any aerobatic training, how has this benefited you and would you recommend it ?

I need to come up with a list of pros and cons and then make a decision. The cost of this training is quite high so it is not a small, insignificant decision to be made, not to mention that I'll need compelling evidence to justify the training with my dad, who I will need to borrow from( I have a full time job and am paying for all my training in due time)

Some background: I have a PPL with a C172, PA28 - 140, PA28 - 181 and Bat Hawk on my license. I have 110 hours, am busy with my night rating and am working towards an instruction position at my flight school. I will be getting Single IF CPL initially. I will get my multi-engine rating later on.



Any input will be appreciated

Thanks
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Re: Value of Aerobatic Rating

Unread post by Wildcat_003 » Thu Feb 11, 2016 8:16 am

Hi S, Lets start with the basics. You firstly have to learn to execute the aerobatic manoeuvres which is a new skill. Its a three dimensional envelope you are entering. Its teaches you how to utilize the full maneuvering envelope of the Yak 52, in this case, and with your very limited experience its not that easy but once you get to grips with it, your handling capabilities will vastly improve. Once you have mastered the various manoeuvres you can opt to get an aerobatic rating but that's if you want to go further into competition aerobatic. If you just enjoy to fly some aerobatics you just need to convert onto the Yak and find someone to teach you the basic aerobatics. It all depends on what your objective is once you can do aerobatics. Do you want a rating to go into competition then go that route. If you just want to enjoy the joys of looping and rolling, different story.
Some people get sick....some don't enjoy the positive/negative G ......you must experience it first and then decide. The most important aspect that you will find is the vast improvement of your hand/eye coordination and ability to fly your aircraft a lot better. Now for the response.......
Check yur 6...!!!
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Re: Value of Aerobatic Rating

Unread post by GavinStewart172 » Thu Feb 11, 2016 9:26 am

Hi Wildcat

Thanks for taking the time to reply. The objective of the whole exercise is to take my limited experience and improve it, specifically by broadening out into different disciplines of flying. I have asked around for opinions and so far all agree that my hands-on flying ability will be greatly improved, as well as my safety. At this point in time, competition flying is not my goal, so your advice then would be to get the conversion and do a few aeros to get the experience without getting the rating. Thank you.

As for the sickness, my instructor has already taken me up in the Yak and demonstrated a few basic manoeuvres which I handled without any sickness. I actually enjoy both positive and negative Gs, it's quite fun :D
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Re: Value of Aerobatic Rating

Unread post by SIQ » Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:14 pm

Hi GS,

If it is really about improving your "hands-on flying ability" and the fact that you need to borrow the money for this I think you will get more bang for your buck if you do a tail wheel conversion on something like a Decathlon. This way you will have a tail wheel conversion as well as some basic aerobatics. Don't get me wrong the Yak is a great aircraft and if the war-bird rating is something you are after then go for it.

Good luck with your decision
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Re: Value of Aerobatic Rating

Unread post by paulw » Thu Feb 11, 2016 2:29 pm

I agree with both Wildcat_003 and SIQ

Do you get a Warbird rating on a YAK52?
It is not an official warbird in SA. And don't you need 300 hours minimum to get a warbird rating?
.
Don't believe what I post, research what I post....
They have a book on how to take my money away? When did this happen......
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Re: Value of Aerobatic Rating

Unread post by GavinStewart172 » Thu Feb 11, 2016 5:01 pm

SIQ wrote:Hi GS,

If it is really about improving your "hands-on flying ability" and the fact that you need to borrow the money for this I think you will get more bang for your buck if you do a tail wheel conversion on something like a Decathlon. This way you will have a tail wheel conversion as well as some basic aerobatics. Don't get me wrong the Yak is a great aircraft and if the war-bird rating is something you are after then go for it.

Good luck with your decision
Thanks for the advice. It would be a good idea to do it on the Decathlon and a get some tail wheel experience. I agree that it's worth considering.
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Re: Value of Aerobatic Rating

Unread post by GavinStewart172 » Thu Feb 11, 2016 5:05 pm

paulw wrote:I agree with both Wildcat_003 and SIQ

Do you get a Warbird rating on a YAK52?
It is not an official warbird in SA. And don't you need 300 hours minimum to get a warbird rating?
Hi Paul. I'm looking through the CATS now and I can't find any mention of the Yak-52.
It appears that the 300 hours requirement is related to turbine warbirds.
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Re: Value of Aerobatic Rating

Unread post by Neville Ferreira » Fri Feb 12, 2016 7:40 am

GavinStewart172 wrote:Hi All

I have been presented the opportunity to get an aerobatic rating on a Yak-52, which will include getting a war-bird rating. Are there any pilots who can give an opinion on the value that the ratings will offer ? Also, if you have had any aerobatic training, how has this benefited you and would you recommend it ?


Any input will be appreciated

Thanks
Gavin you have been placed under the incorrect assumption that an Aerobatic rating will include a warbird rating on a 52. As you have pointed out that you do not intend to fly competition aerobatics there is no current alternative to get an aerobatic rating without the assistance of the Sport Aerobatic Club through RAASA.

Secondly learning a new type like a 52 plus aerobatic training at the same time with your current experience will take much longer than you at 300 hours experience.

The training of basic aerobatics is always a plus and will open a whole new world of peripheral vision that you learn about plus the extra bonus of finding out your feet are for flying too and not just to climb in and out of a aeroplane.

At SIQ has indicated get a tail wheel conversion done first.
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Re: Value of Aerobatic Rating

Unread post by GavinStewart172 » Fri Feb 12, 2016 10:40 am

Neville Ferreira wrote:
Gavin you have been placed under the incorrect assumption that an Aerobatic rating will include a warbird rating on a 52. As you have pointed out that you do not intend to fly competition aerobatics there is no current alternative to get an aerobatic rating without the assistance of the Sport Aerobatic Club through RAASA.

Secondly learning a new type like a 52 plus aerobatic training at the same time with your current experience will take much longer than you at 300 hours experience.

The training of basic aerobatics is always a plus and will open a whole new world of peripheral vision that you learn about plus the extra bonus of finding out your feet are for flying too and not just to climb in and out of a aeroplane.

At SIQ has indicated get a tail wheel conversion done first.
Hi Neville. I've had two Yak pilots say that the warbird rating is needed so I will have to query that further. I am aware that to get to graduate level, I will have to get 70% in front of a panel of judges through the SAC.

Thanks for the advice. Either way this goes, I will get an aero rating as the benefits are clearly worth it.
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Re: Value of Aerobatic Rating

Unread post by GavinStewart172 » Fri Feb 12, 2016 10:41 am

Thanks to all for their input. I think I have enough info to make a decision
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Re: Value of Aerobatic Rating

Unread post by Whirly » Fri Feb 12, 2016 11:02 am

GavinStewart172 wrote:Thanks to all for their input. I think I have enough info to make a decision
Good, so when are you starting with your chopper rating? :twisted:

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Re: Value of Aerobatic Rating

Unread post by GavinStewart172 » Fri Feb 12, 2016 11:32 am

Whirly wrote:
Good, so when are you starting with your chopper rating? :twisted:

Whirly.

When my ship comes in :lol:
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Re: Value of Aerobatic Rating

Unread post by Neville Ferreira » Fri Feb 12, 2016 12:26 pm

GavinStewart172 wrote:
Hi Neville. I've had two Yak pilots say that the warbird rating is needed so I will have to query that further.

Stewart do not bother to investigate further, someone is smoking some serious stuff trying to get hold of your dad's money. I have over 600 hours on 52's, 600+aerobatic Hours logged.

Converting to a Yak52 is like converting to any other advanced system platform. Retractable gear, supercharged, constant speed prop and the Russian systems of the aircraft and how it all works.
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Re: Value of Aerobatic Rating

Unread post by Jason Alexander » Fri Feb 12, 2016 8:32 pm

According to the CATs a Yak 52 is not a "Warbird". It is not mentioned or classified. Will publish the link...However there is a nice open class at the bottom of the list called " All ex-military aircraft". The Yak was never used in the Soviet Air Force.It was used in the DOSAAF, a state sponsored flying academy. Pilots would progress from there to the Air Force. Much like the German flying clubs pre-WW2. That being said it has been used as a basic trainer in the Hungarian,Latvian,Lithuanian,Vietnamese and various other former commie countries air forces. Check Wikipedia.It's cousin, the Nanchang CJ-6 was the basic trainer in the Chinese Air Force for quite a while. So it can be confusing. However....I was told two weeks ago by a certain CAA official that "they" see a Yak as an ex - Military aircraft...hence I may not put my Yak in a school for training as at a point I wanted to (as a Grade 2 instructor).They change their story every year....very tiring...Last year I practically had a Training Authority to Fly, bar 1 last inspection and this year ....no....its ex-military. Can't put it in a school. Who knows?? Almost as tiring as them saying you need to overhaul a Yak engine at 500 hours (let's not go there)...when there is no published law in SA that says this.....Bottom line...Do Yak convex....Do aerobatic training syllabus as prescribed and get signed out as per the requirements as stipulated for an aerobatic rating in the CARS...under the authority of RAASA....Hand forms in for differences and familiarization training to CAA and Aerobatics Rating forms to RAASA. If they ask you for another form fill it in.Depends if it's Monday or Friday:)
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Re: Value of Aerobatic Rating

Unread post by Jason Alexander » Fri Feb 12, 2016 8:37 pm

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