GL's commentary on CemAir vs the ‘Commission Against Aviation’

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GL's commentary on CemAir vs the ‘Commission Against Aviation’

Unread post by SlowApproach » Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:18 am

Behind every angry woman is a man who has absolutely no idea what he did wrong.
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Re: GL's commentary on CemAir vs the ‘Commission Against Aviation’

Unread post by Ugly Duckling » Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:26 am

Touché =D>
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Re: GL's commentary on CemAir vs the ‘Commission Against Aviation’

Unread post by cage » Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:31 am

Somewhat slanted but I guess that's why it is an opinion piece and the sort of stuff the Maverick like to publish.
Cemair's PR department will no doubt approve.
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Re: GL's commentary on CemAir vs the ‘Commission Against Aviation’

Unread post by HJK 414 » Fri Dec 21, 2018 11:32 am

cage wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:31 am
Somewhat slanted but I guess that's why it is an opinion piece and the sort of stuff the Maverick like to publish.
Cemair's PR department will no doubt approve.

Perhaps the piece was written under the auspices of "political correctness" - yet based on the ever increasing trickles of information pointing in the same direction ? And that it was / is indeed a concerted effort by an organisation that has stepped into a role it was never meant for ??

The same arguments that were used to "validate" the many "complaints" and "unhappy staff" - against Cemair must be valid in the other direction as well in this case. We hear ever more stories about the regulator - "lack of insight and knowledge" / accident reports of a dismal level / bullying / and random intimidation ........ perhaps there is indeed a case for a review of what has become of the original mandate and effectiveness of the "old" SACAA ??

Aviation would probably welcome a independent audit and honest appraisal of what is happening.

JK
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Re: GL's commentary on CemAir vs the ‘Commission Against Aviation’

Unread post by Jel » Fri Dec 21, 2018 11:42 am

cage wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:31 am
Somewhat slanted but I guess that's why it is an opinion piece and the sort of stuff the Maverick like to publish.
Cemair's PR department will no doubt approve.
:lol: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: So true... one of the reasons I don't read SA Flyer anymore... started to feel like the whole thing was an advertorial.... on a more serious note...

Cemair has shown just how polarised the industry is at the moment... there seems to be no middle ground anywhere... you are either on one side or the other, but nothing in between... its no wonder there is a huge gap between the regulator and the regulated... do people not know how to engage any longer...

It is also strange to me how the stakeholders in the industry cant even get it together and there is a feeling that the only way to achieve anything is by fighting the CAA and crying from the rooftops about how unfair this all is... and yet... the CAA is still there, and will be there forever... and working against them is simply not going to achieve anything...
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Re: GL's commentary on CemAir vs the ‘Commission Against Aviation’

Unread post by Whirly » Fri Dec 21, 2018 11:48 am

Was the verdict of the judge also "slanted" ? :?

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Re: GL's commentary on CemAir vs the ‘Commission Against Aviation’

Unread post by cage » Fri Dec 21, 2018 11:51 am

HJK 414 wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 11:32 am
Aviation would probably welcome a independent audit and honest appraisal of what is happening.
...
Indeed, who would argue with that.

My comments were about the specific article and those that applaud it for, here's that saying again - "telling it like it is".

Except it is an opinion piece, it is not fact.
Guy regularly writes a column giving the CAA a hiding, and this is an extension of that. Fair enough.
Locally we have an emotional populace and too many can't distinguish between opinion and fact and it just fuels more divisiveness in an already divided community.
Many respected publications would have multiple columnists so opposite sides of the conversation is heard, this provides balance.

This article isn't balanced, it isn't supposed to be, it's what the Daily Maverick does.
(It isn't particularly well written, but perhaps the good sub-editing staff is on leave).

Using opinion and speculation to imply "things" are going on, then referencing similar opinion to justify the view, the truth does not make. It leaps to bring race into it (that will get the ratings up!) and only puts forward one view.
Questionable journalism that will appeal to the like-minded and no doubt get a bunch of people excited.

It is what it is, best not to pretend it is something different.
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Re: GL's commentary on CemAir vs the ‘Commission Against Aviation’

Unread post by cage » Fri Dec 21, 2018 11:52 am

Whirly wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 11:48 am
Was the verdict of the judge also "slanted" ? :?

Whirly.
No one has read or seen the verdict, only read two very different spins on the outcome.
The outcome doesn't validate any of the content of this article or indeed any of the posts on the thread.
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Re: GL's commentary on CemAir vs the ‘Commission Against Aviation’

Unread post by happyskipper » Fri Dec 21, 2018 12:01 pm

cage wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 11:52 am
Whirly wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 11:48 am
Was the verdict of the judge also "slanted" ? :?

Whirly.
No one has read or seen the verdict, only read two very different spins on the outcome.
The outcome doesn't validate any of the content of this article or indeed any of the posts on the thread.
Cage - it appears that you believe that your opinion is the only "right" one, and that anything else deserves to be scorned, and attacked. Try, at least, to understand that people who have opinions that differ from yours also have valid points - otherwise you lose credibility.....
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Re: GL's commentary on CemAir vs the ‘Commission Against Aviation’

Unread post by cage » Fri Dec 21, 2018 12:06 pm

happyskipper wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 12:01 pm

Cage - it appears that you believe that your opinion is the only "right" one, and that anything else deserves to be scorned, and attacked. Try, at least, to understand that people who have opinions that differ from yours also have valid points - otherwise you lose credibility.....
Say what?
Play the man ey?

No one has read the court docs and are picking a side based on two very well spun docs.
I would put no stock in either.
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Re: GL's commentary on CemAir vs the ‘Commission Against Aviation’

Unread post by happyskipper » Fri Dec 21, 2018 12:13 pm

cage wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 12:06 pm
happyskipper wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 12:01 pm

Cage - it appears that you believe that your opinion is the only "right" one, and that anything else deserves to be scorned, and attacked. Try, at least, to understand that people who have opinions that differ from yours also have valid points - otherwise you lose credibility.....
Say what?
Play the man ey?

No one has read the court docs and are picking a side based on two very well spun docs.
I would put no stock in either.
No, Not "playing the man" - simply asking that you do not constantly "put down" others' opinions.

Except it is an opinion piece, it is not fact.
Guy regularly writes a column giving the CAA a hiding, and this is an extension of that. Fair enough.
Locally we have an emotional populace and too many can't distinguish between opinion and fact and it just fuels more divisiveness in an already divided community.
Many respected publications would have multiple columnists so opposite sides of the conversation is heard, this provides balance.

This article isn't balanced, it isn't supposed to be, it's what the Daily Maverick does.
(It isn't particularly well written, but perhaps the good sub-editing staff is on leave).

Using opinion and speculation to imply "things" are going on, then referencing similar opinion to justify the view, the truth does not make. It leaps to bring race into it (that will get the ratings up!) and only puts forward one view.
Questionable journalism that will appeal to the like-minded and no doubt get a bunch of people excited.

It is what it is, best not to pretend it is something different.
I was referring to this post, actually - I hit the wrong button, by mistake.
If references are made to something, where you add your opinion in brackets, at least recognize the opinions of others - that's all I ask.....
Mark 8)
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Re: GL's commentary on CemAir vs the ‘Commission Against Aviation’

Unread post by Whirly » Fri Dec 21, 2018 12:14 pm

The judge found in favour of Cemair but said the whole time that if safety really was in doubt, he would not stand in CAA's way. To me that is the crux of the whole saga. The verdict was in favour of Cemair, I really don't need to read the whole verdict.

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Re: GL's commentary on CemAir vs the ‘Commission Against Aviation’

Unread post by HJK 414 » Fri Dec 21, 2018 12:18 pm

Whirly wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 12:14 pm
The judge found in favour of Cemair but said the whole time that if safety really was in doubt, he would not stand in CAA's way. To me that is the crux of the whole saga. The verdict was in favour of Cemair, I really don't need to read the whole verdict.

Whirly.

+ 1 ..... I would fly on any Cemair flight.

JK
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Re: GL's commentary on CemAir vs the ‘Commission Against Aviation’

Unread post by cage » Fri Dec 21, 2018 12:25 pm

Whirly wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 12:14 pm
The verdict was in favour of Cemair, I really don't need to read the whole verdict.
With legalities the devil is in the detail, the result could reflect more on how prepared the CAA was in court as an example.
Big conclusions can't be drawn by the verdict alone.
To really get a clear view of what is going on you would need to divorce the vast amounts of spin going on and look at the specific details.
So the full judgment is important for context, until then it is a lot of intellectual masturbation imho.
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Re: GL's commentary on CemAir vs the ‘Commission Against Aviation’

Unread post by Jel » Fri Dec 21, 2018 12:26 pm

HJK 414 wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 12:18 pm
Whirly wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 12:14 pm
The judge found in favour of Cemair but said the whole time that if safety really was in doubt, he would not stand in CAA's way. To me that is the crux of the whole saga. The verdict was in favour of Cemair, I really don't need to read the whole verdict.

Whirly.

+ 1 ..... I would fly on any Cemair flight.

JK
Ok then... I wouldn't.

I also wouldn't also rely on a judge to determine if an airline operation is safe no matter what the judgement says. Interesting that the CAA grounded him and within a few hours a judge is able to determine the safety of an airline :!:

I would rather leave safety aspects to more qualified people than a judge, who I would assume are more in the know than I am not up to lawyers and judges who may or may not present better arguments than one another.

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