CONSORTIUM PROPOSES R21BN LOAN TO SAA

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Re: CONSORTIUM PROPOSES R21BN LOAN TO SAA

Unread post by Airwayfreak » Mon Dec 24, 2018 7:05 pm

Selfloader wrote:
Mon Dec 24, 2018 6:47 pm
This should put an end to any further discussion on the matter. Theunis Crous and his good friend Primrose (she's the company president)
feature prominently in this report.
https://www.news24.com/Archives/City-Pr ... d-20150429
Dated 2013/07/07
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Re: CONSORTIUM PROPOSES R21BN LOAN TO SAA

Unread post by happyskipper » Mon Dec 24, 2018 7:13 pm

More here:

https://www.heraldlive.co.za/news/2018- ... -offences/

and here:
https://www.news24.com/Drum/Archive/a- ... s-20170728

and here:

https://www.algoafm.co.za/article/local ... apes-jail-

And this is what he thinks of Orania - a really loyal Suid Afrikaner, this one......
Screenshot_2018-12-24 Theunis Crous ( TheunisCrous) Twitter.png
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Re: CONSORTIUM PROPOSES R21BN LOAN TO SAA

Unread post by evanb » Mon Dec 24, 2018 8:33 pm

GRAHAMW wrote:
Mon Dec 24, 2018 9:02 am
How much is SAA actually worth according to its balance sheet?
Nothing, which is why nobody will pay for the stake. That they want equity to loan them money shows just how little it's worth.
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Re: CONSORTIUM PROPOSES R21BN LOAN TO SAA

Unread post by HJK 414 » Mon Dec 24, 2018 9:53 pm

evanb wrote:
Mon Dec 24, 2018 8:33 pm
GRAHAMW wrote:
Mon Dec 24, 2018 9:02 am
How much is SAA actually worth according to its balance sheet?
Nothing, which is why nobody will pay for the stake. That they want equity to loan them money shows just how little it's worth.


Hi Evanb.

It remains a remarkable offer.
A "loan" against 51% (then the Government remaining a minority shareholder ..... yet would have to match capital injections / or funding requirements)

Would make some awkward Board meetings when talking about injecting capital if the majority shareholder started ramping up costs within it's own group and passing that on as a "cost" to the Operating entity ...... where would you draw the line as a minority shareholder ....


JK
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Re: CONSORTIUM PROPOSES R21BN LOAN TO SAA

Unread post by evanb » Mon Dec 24, 2018 10:38 pm

HJK 414 wrote:
Mon Dec 24, 2018 9:53 pm
It remains a remarkable offer.
A "loan" against 51% (then the Government remaining a minority shareholder ..... yet would have to match capital injections / or funding requirements)

Would make some awkward Board meetings when talking about injecting capital if the majority shareholder started ramping up costs within it's own group and passing that on as a "cost" to the Operating entity ...... where would you draw the line as a minority shareholder ....
Indeed, and who knows what types of voting shares, etc might be in place. But yes, it's remarkable, but no different to any of the current creditors demanding 51% in order to roll over current loans plus some more up to 21 billion.
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Re: CONSORTIUM PROPOSES R21BN LOAN TO SAA

Unread post by happyskipper » Mon Dec 24, 2018 10:47 pm

Bear in mind that this Crous chappie is accepting backing from the Chinese, as well - methinks we have not seen the end of "State Capture" scenarios in SA..... :shock:
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Re: CONSORTIUM PROPOSES R21BN LOAN TO SAA

Unread post by Mouser » Tue Dec 25, 2018 9:31 am

My little experience in financial matters indicates to me that this SAA "offer" could be a fairly standard SA connected cadre/ BEE / scamster bit of bait; a Christmas present deal of sorts. My personal experience (as a technical person providing cheap consulting input) has been in small money (tens of millions :D ) but knowing executives in say, one or two of Cyril's (BEE) ventures, my guess is a lot may work in a similar way. The main thing is that it isn't about the company or its business but what can be scored personally without putting up one cent (ZAR) of your own money but borrowing everything. My experience; it was IDC money, borrowed 100% against industrial installations. So say R100m is borrowed, R5m goes straight into the pocket as "development cost" or some creative term then the installation struggles (maybe booms) on to pay the loan. But the originator doesn't really care - he has his loot.

In the Cyril case he/the company borrowed all the cash against the business, he bought a minority stake, showed no interest in the actual business but collected around R300k a month (the execs were puzzled as, to them this was not a lot of money) plus the capital appreciation. The holding company took the cash and moved offshore, the original businesses sweated the debt, Cyril never followed his rights as against subsequent capital requirements, seemingly happy to let his shareholding reduce. The Surve PIC "deal" is just a variation where the PIC loans money or "buys" Surve shares at what seems to have been an inflated price. Surve pockets the money and business seems to be unable / doesn't have to, pay anything back. Talking billions in the SAA case; easy for a few hundred million to be diverted, seemingly legit.

I'm open to being totally wrong and corrected.
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Re: CONSORTIUM PROPOSES R21BN LOAN TO SAA

Unread post by Jack Welles » Tue Dec 25, 2018 10:20 am

Mouser wrote:
Tue Dec 25, 2018 9:31 am
My little experience in financial matters indicates to me that this SAA "offer" ... TRIMMED FOR BREVITY ... I'm open to being totally wrong and corrected.
Probably right but it should be noted that all M&A deals (worldwide) are done on a similar basis. This is not unique to SA.

An overseas example (where the deal went sour) is Sir Philip Green, D Chappell and British Home Stores in the UK, which was sold for GBP1,00 after the pension funds had been hollowed out. Or Enron in the USA.

We generally only hear about them when the deal doesn't work out. A prime SA-based international example is Steinhoff. When that popped +-R200 billion was lost, which helps to put SAA's +-R20 billion into perspective.

Sadly, it's the way of the world ... :(
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