SAA Pilot Flies with fake ATPL for almost 20 years

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Re: SAA Pilot Flies with fake ATPL for almost 20 years

Unread post by Ugly Duckling » Sat Mar 09, 2019 11:07 am

Ray W wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2019 9:46 am
Scrapyard Dog wrote:
Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:59 am
The plot thickens:

https://mg.co.za/article/2019-03-08-00- ... ther-scalp
NEWS OPINION ARTS & CULTURE BUSINESS EDUCATI
Wings clipped: SAA has tightened up on its procedures for checking pilot licences after a pilot was found to have forged one of his documents.
Photo: Delwyn Verasamy

NATIONAL
SAA licence fraud claims another scalp
Sabelo Skiti 08 Mar 2019 00:00

The scandal of the senior SAA pilot with a forged licence has resulted in the suspension of the airline’s highest-ranking official responsible for safety after allegations that she tried to cover up for the veteran flyer.


The Mail & Guardian understands that SAA’s group head for safety, Victoria Buxton, was suspended and is facing disciplinary action for allegedly attempting to conceal the indiscretion involving the disgraced William Chandler.

He was found out as a result of an investigation into a reportable incident on flight SA260 travelling between OR Tambo International Airport and Frankfurt in November last year.

The investigation, which includes verification of the crew’s certification, revealed the South African Civil Aviation Authority (SACAA) did not have a record of Chandler’s airline transport pilot licence (ATPL). He had submitted fraudulent documents, claiming he had one, to SAA and .........

The situation was immediately brought to the attention of Buxton, who investigated the incident for SAA, and it is claimed she, instead of informing SAA and taking action, alerted the South African Pilots’ Association.
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Re: SAA Pilot Flies with fake ATPL for almost 20 years

Unread post by Scrapyard Dog » Sat Mar 09, 2019 11:08 am

Ray W wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2019 9:46 am
Scrapyard Dog wrote:
Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:59 am
The plot thickens:

https://mg.co.za/article/2019-03-08-00- ... ther-scalp
Link only avbl to subscribers
SAA licence fraud claims another scalp
Sabelo Skiti 08 Mar 2019 00:00

The scandal of the senior SAA pilot with a forged licence has resulted in the suspension of the airline’s highest-ranking official responsible for safety after allegations that she tried to cover up for the veteran flyer.
The Mail & Guardian understands that SAA’s group head for safety, Victoria Buxton, was suspended and is facing disciplinary action for allegedly attempting to conceal the indiscretion involving the disgraced William Chandler.

He was found out as a result of an investigation into a reportable incident on flight SA260 travelling between OR Tambo International Airport and Frankfurt in November last year.

The investigation, which includes verification of the crew’s certification, revealed the South African Civil Aviation Authority (SACAA) did not have a record of Chandler’s airline transport pilot licence (ATPL). He had submitted fraudulent documents, claiming he had one, to SAA and inspectors.
The situation was immediately brought to the attention of Buxton, who investigated the incident for SAA, and it is claimed she, instead of informing SAA and taking action, alerted the South African Pilots’ Association.
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Re: SAA Pilot Flies with fake ATPL for almost 20 years

Unread post by Jack Welles » Sat Mar 09, 2019 11:41 am

Scrapyard Dog wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2019 11:08 am
Ray W wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2019 9:46 am
Scrapyard Dog wrote:
Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:59 am
The plot thickens: https://mg.co.za/article/2019-03-08-00- ... ther-scalp
Link only avbl to subscribers
SAA licence fraud claims another scalp
Sabelo Skiti 08 Mar 2019 00:00

The scandal of the senior SAA pilot with a forged licence has resulted in the suspension of the airline’s highest-ranking official responsible for safety after allegations that she tried to cover up for the veteran flyer.
The Mail & Guardian understands that SAA’s group head for safety, Victoria Buxton, was suspended and is facing disciplinary action for allegedly attempting to conceal the indiscretion involving the disgraced William Chandler.

He was found out as a result of an investigation into a reportable incident on flight SA260 travelling between OR Tambo International Airport and Frankfurt in November last year.

The investigation, which includes verification of the crew’s certification, revealed the South African Civil Aviation Authority (SACAA) did not have a record of Chandler’s airline transport pilot licence (ATPL). He had submitted fraudulent documents, claiming he had one, to SAA and inspectors.
The situation was immediately brought to the attention of Buxton, who investigated the incident for SAA, and it is claimed she, instead of informing SAA and taking action, alerted the South African Pilots’ Association.
And the further (unconfirmed?) allegation is that the SAPA also didn't alert the employer (thus facilitating an attempt at a cover-up) but quickly advised the relevant pilot that he should quickly resign in order to to draw down his pension in case the doodoo hit the fan.
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Re: SAA Pilot Flies with fake ATPL for almost 20 years

Unread post by jimdavis » Sat Mar 09, 2019 11:50 am

So EVERYONE has been naughty. SAA for not picking it up, Chandler himself, Vicky Buxton and the Pilot's Association. Anyone else joining the queue?

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Re: SAA Pilot Flies with fake ATPL for almost 20 years

Unread post by Jack Welles » Sat Mar 09, 2019 12:43 pm

jimdavis wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2019 11:50 am
So EVERYONE has been naughty. SAA for not picking it up, Chandler himself, Vicky Buxton and the Pilot's Association. Anyone else joining the queue? jim
The REAL question is whether anyone is going to get their naughty little bottoms spanked for this or is it going to be the same as the naughty pols involved in naughty corruption where everyone seems to get away with this stuff?
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Re: SAA Pilot Flies with fake ATPL for almost 20 years

Unread post by IKTAV » Sat Mar 09, 2019 3:02 pm

[/quote]
And the further (unconfirmed?) allegation is that the SAPA also didn't alert the employer (thus facilitating an attempt at a cover-up) but quickly advised the relevant pilot that he should quickly resign in order to to draw down his pension in case the doodoo hit the fan.
[/quote]

Absolute rubbish! The company knew about this incident before SAAPA did.
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Re: SAA Pilot Flies with fake ATPL for almost 20 years

Unread post by Jack Welles » Sat Mar 09, 2019 3:07 pm

IKTAV wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2019 3:02 pm
And the further (unconfirmed?) allegation is that the SAPA also didn't alert the employer (thus facilitating an attempt at a cover-up) but quickly advised the relevant pilot that he should quickly resign in order to to draw down his pension in case the doodoo hit the fan.
Absolute rubbish! The company knew about this incident before SAAPA did.
That's good to know! So is the stuff about Vicky Buxton also fake news? If so, presumably she hasn't been suspended?

Still hope those who were involved get their naughty bottoms spanked [-o<
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Re: SAA Pilot Flies with fake ATPL for almost 20 years

Unread post by ACAS-RA » Sat Mar 09, 2019 3:15 pm

Slightly off topic...

However I think its high time that the SACAA produce a pilot licence that does NOT resemble a "fish and chips takeaway wrapping" :!:
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Re: SAA Pilot Flies with fake ATPL for almost 20 years

Unread post by Airwayfreak » Sat Mar 09, 2019 3:28 pm

ACAS-RA wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2019 3:15 pm
Slightly off topic...

However I think its high time that the SACAA produce a pilot licence that does NOT resemble a "fish and chips takeaway wrapping" :!:
Was the actual licence forged or was it the documentation supplied to SAA that contained false information?

I think this is a case of a perpetuated lie. Started off at the time of senior CPL. Once your employer believes you have an ATPL it becomes extremely embarrassing to request a letter of recommendation to test for your ATPL from said employer. I think this is what happened. Started off as a small fib, got away with it and it grew when senior CPL became ATPL and could not fix the lie.
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Re: SAA Pilot Flies with fake ATPL for almost 20 years

Unread post by jimdavis » Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:43 pm

Airwayfreak wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2019 3:28 pm
ACAS-RA wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2019 3:15 pm
Slightly off topic...

However I think its high time that the SACAA produce a pilot licence that does NOT resemble a "fish and chips takeaway wrapping" :!:
Was the actual licence forged or was it the documentation supplied to SAA that contained false information?

I think this is a case of a perpetuated lie. Started off at the time of senior CPL. Once your employer believes you have an ATPL it becomes extremely embarrassing to request a letter of recommendation to test for your ATPL from said employer. I think this is what happened. Started off as a small fib, got away with it and it grew when senior CPL became ATPL and could not fix the lie.
I agree with you 100% AF. I am sure he didn't tell his family or anyone. And once he had started the lie that was game over. I can imagine he probably had his house and his car all on HP, and would have lost the lot if word got out.

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Re: SAA Pilot Flies with fake ATPL for almost 20 years

Unread post by ACAS-RA » Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:52 pm

Airwayfreak wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2019 3:28 pm
ACAS-RA wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2019 3:15 pm
Slightly off topic...

However I think its high time that the SACAA produce a pilot licence that does NOT resemble a "fish and chips takeaway wrapping" :!:
Was the actual licence forged or was it the documentation supplied to SAA that contained false information?

I think this is a case of a perpetuated lie. Started off at the time of senior CPL. Once your employer believes you have an ATPL it becomes extremely embarrassing to request a letter of recommendation to test for your ATPL from said employer. I think this is what happened. Started off as a small fib, got away with it and it grew when senior CPL became ATPL and could not fix the lie.
I do not have specific details on the transgression.

I was referring to the poor quality of the SACAA licence. From the cheap plastic folder, to the poorly printed paper licence details, skew and misaligned documents, that appear to be copies of the original print that stick to the inside of the plastic sleeves.
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Re: SAA Pilot Flies with fake ATPL for almost 20 years

Unread post by JSB » Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:52 pm

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Re: SAA Pilot Flies with fake ATPL for almost 20 years

Unread post by jimdavis » Mon Mar 11, 2019 8:41 pm

I find that absolutely horrifying. If every taxi driver with a forged license was arrested and bunged in cookie the roads would be blissfully clear. Is there a sliding scale for forgery?

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Re: SAA Pilot Flies with fake ATPL for almost 20 years

Unread post by cage » Mon Mar 11, 2019 8:47 pm

jimdavis wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 8:41 pm
I find that absolutely horrifying. If every taxi driver with a forged license was arrested and bunged in cookie the roads would be blissfully clear. Is there a sliding scale for forgery?
Neither the taxi driver's employer nor his pax cares whether or not he is licensed.
Being licensed would be a disadvantage as there is a chance they may want to obey a few laws which would be a disadvantage for business.

The bar is set somewhat higher by the pilot's colleagues, employer and especially pax.

All crimes should be equal but the expected standards certainly aren't.
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Re: SAA Pilot Flies with fake ATPL for almost 20 years

Unread post by jimdavis » Mon Mar 11, 2019 8:52 pm

cage wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 8:47 pm
jimdavis wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 8:41 pm
I find that absolutely horrifying. If every taxi driver with a forged license was arrested and bunged in cookie the roads would be blissfully clear. Is there a sliding scale for forgery?
Neither the taxi driver's employer nor his pax cares whether or not he is licensed.
Being licensed would be a disadvantage as there is a chance they may want to obey a few laws which would be a disadvantage for business.

The bar is set somewhat higher by the pilot's colleagues, employer and especially pax.

All crimes should be equal but the expected standards certainly aren't.
This has nothing to do with colleagues, employers or pax. Did you read the news clip? Chandler was "taken into custody". That means arrested by the police.

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