SAA Pilot Flies with fake ATPL for almost 20 years

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Re: SAA Pilot Flies with fake ATPL for almost 20 years

Unread post by Whirly » Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:22 am

Jack Welles wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:19 am
Whirly wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:17 am
OK. So only punish this guy if Zuma and Jiba get punished. :twisted: Whirly.
The logic escapes me :?
.............................this :twisted: , obviously too. :roll:

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Re: SAA Pilot Flies with fake ATPL for almost 20 years

Unread post by Jack Welles » Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:25 am

Die hele spul (sommer almal wat so aangaan) moet in die tronk gegooi word ... :evil:
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Re: SAA Pilot Flies with fake ATPL for almost 20 years

Unread post by cage » Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:28 am

Jack Welles wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:25 am
Die hele spul (sommer almal wat so aangaan) moet in die tronk gegooi word ... :evil:
Just send them to a far away land, we already have a pilot just need an aircraft :twisted:
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Re: SAA Pilot Flies with fake ATPL for almost 20 years

Unread post by Peblehead » Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:58 am

jimdavis wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:46 am
Jack Welles wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:03 am



So Eddie, are honorary degrees awarded to people who are too stupid to pass the exams? Is it a "fake" degree because it is awarded for years of excellence rather than writing a thesis?


jim
Mr Zuma has an honors degree?.... It was awarded by a reputable institution?
Many times people confuse a level of education with competence, in some cases a layman with modest education and years of exp can add value and even mentor men with a higher level of academic acumen.
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Re: SAA Pilot Flies with fake ATPL for almost 20 years

Unread post by richard C » Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:59 am

cage wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:28 am
Jack Welles wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:25 am
Die hele spul (sommer almal wat so aangaan) moet in die tronk gegooi word ... :evil:
Just send them to a far away land, we already have a pilot just need an aircraft :twisted:
Toss him the keys to the Max....
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Re: SAA Pilot Flies with fake ATPL for almost 20 years

Unread post by cage » Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:02 pm

Peblehead wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:58 am
jimdavis wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:46 am
Jack Welles wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:03 am
So Eddie, are honorary degrees awarded to people who are too stupid to pass the exams? Is it a "fake" degree because it is awarded for years of excellence rather than writing a thesis?
Mr Zuma has an honors degree?.... It was awarded by a reputable institution?
Many times people confuse a level of education with competence, in some cases a layman with modest education and years of exp can add value and even mentor men with a higher level of academic acumen.
University of Peking, yep, very reputable especially if you like crispy duck and pancakes.
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Re: SAA Pilot Flies with fake ATPL for almost 20 years

Unread post by Airwayfreak » Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:30 pm

cage wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:02 pm
Peblehead wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:58 am
jimdavis wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:46 am


Mr Zuma has an honors degree?.... It was awarded by a reputable institution?
Many times people confuse a level of education with competence, in some cases a layman with modest education and years of exp can add value and even mentor men with a higher level of academic acumen.
University of Peking, yep, very reputable especially if you like crispy duck and pancakes.
Honours degree or honoury degree ? Big difference
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Re: SAA Pilot Flies with fake ATPL for almost 20 years

Unread post by cage » Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:40 pm

Airwayfreak wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:30 pm
Honours degree or honoury degree ? Big difference
Listen properly.. ;)
Honorary degree c/o the Chinese government
Here are his "qualifications", all definitely earned for his exceptional contribution. Care of the pedia of wikis.

University of Zululand (2001), Honorary Doctor of Administration
University of Fort Hare (2001), Honorary Doctor of Literature/Letters
Medical University of Southern Africa (2001), Honorary Doctor of Philosophy
University of Zambia (UNZA) Great East Campus (2009), Honorary Doctor of Law
Peking University (2012), Honorary Professor of International Relations

I guess when you send that much business offshore you have earned a little something for yourself.

But we digress, at least he didn't bother with an honorary ATP.
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Re: SAA Pilot Flies with fake ATPL for almost 20 years

Unread post by Ray W » Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:05 am

Folks, we've got way off topic
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Re: SAA Pilot Flies with fake ATPL for almost 20 years

Unread post by Chris-Cub » Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:54 pm

Licenses:

1-Real fake=From the start obtained under fraudulant/corrupt circuimstances, flying/driving in the shadows of other licenced pilots. System corrupt, like getting degree at a fairytale university.

2-Semi fake=Start off with ligit licences, progress and has experience and no involvement in real accidents, not a word until a discovery is made or let happen. Now here you sit with a pilot safe to fly proven, but not the latest papers he should have.

3-Fully licensed pilot, everything checks out, but hes not that of a practical thinker and get involved in accidents.

Now with this case it seems we have a full circle situation, which could prove other side lacking.
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Re: SAA Pilot Flies with fake ATPL for almost 20 years

Unread post by Multirotordronepilot » Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:35 pm

Chris-Cub wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:54 pm
Licenses:

1-Real fake=From the start obtained under fraudulant/corrupt circuimstances, flying/driving in the shadows of other licenced pilots. System corrupt, like getting degree at a fairytale university.

2-Semi fake=Start off with ligit licences, progress and has experience and no involvement in real accidents, not a word until a discovery is made or let happen. Now here you sit with a pilot safe to fly proven, but not the latest papers he should have.

3-Fully licensed pilot, everything checks out, but hes not that of a practical thinker and get involved in accidents.

Now with this case it seems we have a full circle situation, which could prove other side lacking.
Balance that out with the fact that insurance is a massive part of aviation as planning is done with the worst case scenario in mind.
It is excepted that people make mistakes perhaps very seldom in aviation do these mistake lead to accidents, but when they do then there is always multiple forms of insurance to balance the financial losses. Now how does your option 2 seem.
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Re: SAA Pilot Flies with fake ATPL for almost 20 years

Unread post by Chris-Cub » Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:38 pm

Multirotordronepilot wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:35 pm
Chris-Cub wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:54 pm
Licenses:

1-Real fake=From the start obtained under fraudulant/corrupt circuimstances, flying/driving in the shadows of other licenced pilots. System corrupt, like getting degree at a fairytale university.

2-Semi fake=Start off with ligit licences, progress and has experience and no involvement in real accidents, not a word until a discovery is made or let happen. Now here you sit with a pilot safe to fly proven, but not the latest papers he should have.

3-Fully licensed pilot, everything checks out, but hes not that of a practical thinker and get involved in accidents.

Now with this case it seems we have a full circle situation, which could prove other side lacking.
Balance that out with the fact that insurance is a massive part of aviation as planning is done with the worst case scenario in mind.
It is excepted that people make mistakes perhaps very seldom in aviation do these mistake lead to accidents, but when they do then there is always multiple forms of insurance to balance the financial losses. Now how does your option 2 seem.
The point I am trying to make is out of the blue a situation pop up regarding an obvious experienced pilot, and quickly everybody wants to nail him out of existance, now weigh that up against all the aircraft accidents and deaths especially also recently with a link to 6- months ago which points to the manufacturer and then licenced pilots, now in the last case all papers were above board, but that in itself did not gurantee safety because it is ligit. Now in the pilots case it was quick when noted, but in the manufacturers case time went pass and only now the planes are grounded. What I am trying to say is like in vehicle accidents, legit licencing and papering does not gurantee safe enviroments, you need that experienced trust which licensing and paper cannot capture that well.

The ideal situation is of course Plane/Vehicle fly/roadworthy, pilot/driver passed theoretical tests, and pilot/driver in the air/road with experience.
Now for me as a passenger to make a choice, nevermind insurance, I am at a crossroads, the insurance is always after the fact, my life not(Only one).
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Re: SAA Pilot Flies with fake ATPL for almost 20 years

Unread post by Multirotordronepilot » Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:39 pm

Chris-Cub wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:38 pm
Multirotordronepilot wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:35 pm
Chris-Cub wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:54 pm
Licenses:

1-Real fake=From the start obtained under fraudulant/corrupt circuimstances, flying/driving in the shadows of other licenced pilots. System corrupt, like getting degree at a fairytale university.

2-Semi fake=Start off with ligit licences, progress and has experience and no involvement in real accidents, not a word until a discovery is made or let happen. Now here you sit with a pilot safe to fly proven, but not the latest papers he should have.

3-Fully licensed pilot, everything checks out, but hes not that of a practical thinker and get involved in accidents.

Now with this case it seems we have a full circle situation, which could prove other side lacking.
Balance that out with the fact that insurance is a massive part of aviation as planning is done with the worst case scenario in mind.
It is excepted that people make mistakes perhaps very seldom in aviation do these mistake lead to accidents, but when they do then there is always multiple forms of insurance to balance the financial losses. Now how does your option 2 seem.
The point I am trying to make is
Thanks for clarifying Chris I get your point
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Re: SAA Pilot Flies with fake ATPL for almost 20 years

Unread post by Jack Welles » Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:13 am

Chris-Cub wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:54 pm
1-Real fake=From the start obtained under fraudulant/corrupt circuimstances, flying/driving in the shadows of other licenced pilots. System corrupt, like getting degree at a fairytale university.
2-Semi fake=Start off with ligit licences, progress and has experience and no involvement in real accidents, not a word until a discovery is made or let happen. Now here you sit with a pilot safe to fly proven, but not the latest papers he should have.
3-Fully licensed pilot, everything checks out, but hes not that of a practical thinker and get involved in accidents.
Now with this case it seems we have a full circle situation, which could prove other side lacking.
You don't get a halfway-house between innocent and guilty called semi-guilty, you don't get a halfway-house between law-abiding and criminal called semi-criminal. You don't get a halfway-house between honest and fake called semi-fake. Die ding is reg of verkeerd.

The pilot concerned (no matter how good he may have been at his job) has been charged with fraud and uttering, not with semi-fraud and semi-uttering. It's not about his flying. Forget that. It's a red herring. It's irrelevant. So why then has he been charged?

Because he is alleged to have used forged documents (uttering) to deceive his employer (fraud). If the allegations prove correct he is a criminal no better than Sipho who got an accountant position with Eskom on a forged degree certificate or Jiba who is alleged to have got a senior prosecutor position with the NPA by falsely claiming to be an advocate (and with a little hulpstootjie from Zuma).

It's really not that complicated.

As an aside, he did have "the latest papers he should have" the trouble is he is alleged to have forged the "latest papers" himself because he was apparently unable to pass the requisite exams (for whatever reason) ...
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Re: SAA Pilot Flies with fake ATPL for almost 20 years

Unread post by richard C » Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:43 am

You don't get a halfway-house between innocent and guilty called semi-guilty, you don't get a halfway-house between law-abiding and criminal called semi-criminal. You don't get a halfway-house between honest and fake called semi-fake. Die ding is reg of verkeerd.
I thought you do - they're called extenuating or mitigating circumstances.

I would guess that here there aren't any, however...
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