SAA, SAX and Mango to merge

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SAA, SAX and Mango to merge

Unread post by cage » Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:03 pm

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Re: SAA, SAX and Mango to merge

Unread post by Jack Welles » Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:12 pm

You have to wonder sometimes. So because the airlines are battling you merge the three into one. On the other hand Eskom is battling so you divide it into three. :?
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Re: SAA, SAX and Mango to merge

Unread post by HJK 414 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:13 pm

Oh Dear ……


Furthermore, Cabinet would have to decide how much additional funding would be needed for such a consolidation process, especially since various regulatory and government processes would have to be followed in order to make it happen.
The department told the committee that the first step in process was the transfer of SAA from Treasury to the DPE.



DPE - is that not that very successful oversight institute that manages Transnet / Eskom and Denel amongst others ??
Great track record - good to see that excellence is prevailing ......

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Re: SAA, SAX and Mango to merge

Unread post by Ugly Duckling » Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:15 pm

Eish 8-[
Is this another way of getting the $s to fall through the cracks [-X
ALL the contracts need to be examined and canned where 3rd parties can supply same a market related rates.
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Re: SAA, SAX and Mango to merge

Unread post by Jack Welles » Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:19 pm

Both the airlines and Eskom could be fixed. Real issues are being ignored. Deck chairs come to mind ...
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Re: SAA, SAX and Mango to merge

Unread post by HJK 414 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:34 pm

Jack Welles wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:19 pm
Both the airlines and Eskom could be fixed. Real issues are being ignored. Deck chairs come to mind ...

Really Eddie ?.

Please elaborate on how the airline could be fixed ……. I am very curious ..
With the current balance sheet(s) and Operational results - it is, in my view - not possible.

But more than happy to be proved wrong.



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Re: SAA, SAX and Mango to merge

Unread post by Whirly » Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:38 pm

Jack Welles wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:19 pm
Both the airlines and Eskom could be fixed. Real issues are being ignored. Deck chairs come to mind ...
Yes, I agree with you...................................but 90% of the deckchairs should be pushed overboard with the incompetent occupants in them............then, and only then will either have a chance. I won't get my hopes up though! :roll:

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Re: SAA, SAX and Mango to merge

Unread post by Richard007 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:00 pm

Blah blah blah. Just an excuse so you can have 'restructuring costs' which means you can pour another squillion ZAR into the black hole on the basis that you are 'fixing' it.

In 3 years time when its losing more money than ever then you dust of a tired old 'turn around strategy' with reassurances that it will be profitable 'soon'.

Gordhan is a communist. He will spend the country's last borrowed rand bailing out these useless/corrupt/incompetent SOE's.
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Re: SAA, SAX and Mango to merge

Unread post by Jack Welles » Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:09 pm

HJK 414 wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:34 pm
Jack Welles wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:19 pm
Both the airlines and Eskom could be fixed. Real issues are being ignored. Deck chairs come to mind ...
Really Eddie ?. Please elaborate on how the airline could be fixed ……. I am very curious ..
With the current balance sheet(s) and Operational results - it is, in my view - not possible.
But more than happy to be proved wrong. JK
Short version for social media -

Background: Eskom is too important to fail and SAA has enormous passenger goodwill, well qualified operational staff (especially pilots)(maybe others? - above my paygrade) and infrastructural and institutional knowledge etc.

For starters get rid of deadwood employees, cut unions influence, privatise, go harsh on non-paying munis etc, no govt operational interference, jobs on merit not BEE, no more transformation cr@p, allow private production of energy, forensic investigation of all contracts ...

(apply as appropriate to Eskom and SAA (also Denel etc).

This is the theory which is what was asked for - for practical agree with Whirly about not getting hopes up ...

As an aside: the reference to deckchairs was in the context of the Titanic ...
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Re: SAA, SAX and Mango to merge

Unread post by cage » Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:39 pm

Richard007 wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:00 pm
Blah blah blah. Just an excuse so you can have 'restructuring costs' which means you can pour another squillion ZAR into the black hole on the basis that you are 'fixing' it.

In 3 years time when its losing more money than ever then you dust of a tired old 'turn around strategy' with reassurances that it will be profitable 'soon'.

Gordhan is a communist. He will spend the country's last borrowed rand bailing out these useless/corrupt/incompetent SOE's.
<<moderated - language>> me, you are a ray of sunshine. Find a hobby before you give yourself something that needs professional help. Eish.
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Re: SAA, SAX and Mango to merge

Unread post by HJK 414 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:49 pm

Jack Welles wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:09 pm
HJK 414 wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:34 pm
Jack Welles wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:19 pm
Both the airlines and Eskom could be fixed. Real issues are being ignored. Deck chairs come to mind ...
Really Eddie ?. Please elaborate on how the airline could be fixed ……. I am very curious ..
With the current balance sheet(s) and Operational results - it is, in my view - not possible.
But more than happy to be proved wrong. JK
Short version for social media -

Background: Eskom is too important to fail and SAA has enormous passenger goodwill, well qualified operational staff (especially pilots)(maybe others? - above my paygrade) and infrastructural and institutional knowledge etc.

For starters get rid of deadwood employees, cut unions influence, privatise, go harsh on non-paying munis etc, no govt operational interference, jobs on merit not BEE, no more transformation cr@p, allow private production of energy, forensic investigation of all contracts ...

(apply as appropriate to Eskom and SAA (also Denel etc).

This is the theory which is what was asked for - for practical agree with Whirly about not getting hopes up ...

As an aside: the reference to deckchairs was in the context of the Titanic ...

ahhhhh

For a moment I really thought you had a realistic idea on how to save the airline ……. my bad


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Re: SAA, SAX and Mango to merge

Unread post by Jack Welles » Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:55 pm

HJK 414 wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:49 pm
Jack Welles wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:09 pm
HJK 414 wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:34 pm

Really Eddie ?. Please elaborate on how the airline could be fixed ……. I am very curious ..
With the current balance sheet(s) and Operational results - it is, in my view - not possible.
But more than happy to be proved wrong. JK
Short version for social media -

Background: Eskom is too important to fail and SAA has enormous passenger goodwill, well qualified operational staff (especially pilots)(maybe others? - above my paygrade) and infrastructural and institutional knowledge etc.

For starters get rid of deadwood employees, cut unions influence, privatise, go harsh on non-paying munis etc, no govt operational interference, jobs on merit not BEE, no more transformation cr@p, allow private production of energy, forensic investigation of all contracts ...

(apply as appropriate to Eskom and SAA (also Denel etc).

This is the theory which is what was asked for - for practical agree with Whirly about not getting hopes up ...

As an aside: the reference to deckchairs was in the context of the Titanic ...
ahhhhh For a moment I really thought you had a realistic idea on how to save the airline ……. my bad JK
:lol: no such luck - just general principles - specific knowledge of how airlines and power utilities are run are bo my vuurmaakplek ...
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http://www.loreofnegotiation.com
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Re: SAA, SAX and Mango to merge

Unread post by Ugly Duckling » Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:06 am

If they can get to the bottom of the rot there could be hope
https://m.fin24.com/Companies/Industria ... s-20190918
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Re: SAA, SAX and Mango to merge

Unread post by Jack Welles » Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:02 am

Ugly Duckling wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:06 am
If they can get to the bottom of the rot there could be hope
https://m.fin24.com/Companies/Industria ... s-20190918
IME to rescue a company in difficulties (countries too) it will take more than just getting rid of the rot, ie, corrupt activities. You also have to make it commercially efffective. So that has to be the priority.

As long as you set other objectives unrelated to business efficiency you are making it highly unlikely that any turnaround strategy will be a success. All the SOE's are labouring under inappropriate goals as is the Government. Even though the new Mboweni plan is pretty good as it stands it won't work if the overall mission is still subject to anything other than correctly targeted outcomes.
Jack Welles (thriller_author pen name)
https://www.amazon.com/Jack-Welles/e/B073VJQTTX
Eddie Haynes-Smart
Textbook - "The Lore of Negotiation"
http://www.loreofnegotiation.com

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