VW Engine with reduction drive, ground adjustable prop and mount

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VW Engine with reduction drive, ground adjustable prop and mount

Unread post by caliber » Fri Feb 22, 2019 4:21 pm

Item Name: VW Engine with belt reduction drive, ground adjustable propeller, spinner and engine mount.
Condition: Used
Reason for sale: Not suitable for project.
Location: Port Elizabeth
Price: R 35 000.00 or swap (read below)
Payment methods: EFT, Cash, No e-Wallet
Contact:
My brother Sebastian: 073 618 9775
Myself (Daniel): 082 975 6942 or PM

My brother and I acquired this engine along with a partial KR-2S project we purchased. It was never attached to the aircraft and isn't really suitable for a KR-2S, engine profile is too high and prop would almost be scraping the ground. :shock:
We therefore wish to either sell or possibly trade it for something more suitable to our needs, such as a direct drive VW.

The engine as I understand it has been bored to around 1800, the information we have from when we purchased the project is that it was originally used on a bushbaby and only ran for about 10 hours. It starts up quite easily and sounds good, would be happy to run it for anyone.
It has a Zenith carburetor and an airbox with carb heat valve in place. The reduction drive appears to be approximately 1:0.65 (0.65 prop revolutions per engine revolution) we don't have an official spec on it, this is just what we counted by turning the engine.

I don't know much about the prop, it's adjustable and marked as a "GSC Systems" and has the number 615 punched in at the root, tip to tip it measures 173cm (~ 68"). Also included is the spinner.

Finally there is included an engine mount as well as a second mount for ground running/testing. Engine is on this mount currently, does not include the wheels in the photo.

If you need any other info please ask. Both myself or my brother can be contacted (numbers above), for technical questions rather contact my bro as he's the mechanic between us (or just post here and I'll ask him and revert). I can also upload higher res versions of any of the photos, just ask. :)

The engine and everything else can be viewed in PE. Regarding transport, we are prepared to arrange shipping at buyers cost. We do also travel extensively within the Eastern and Western Cape for work (as far as Mthatha and Vredenburg) and have a bakkie so could potentially transport it at no significant cost dependent on time.

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Re: VW Engine with reduction drive, ground adjustable prop and mount

Unread post by Multirotordronepilot » Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:03 am

I like the fact that the flywheel has been used as the drive end. Would be easy to find the BB this came from, just look for the one with the homp in the top of the cowling.

Jean Crous, what do you think the possibilities of moving the oil cooler and alternator to adapt the height profile a bit ?
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Re: VW Engine with reduction drive, ground adjustable prop and mount

Unread post by Jean Crous » Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:13 pm

Milti, both are fairly easy to relocate, especially if a better inlet manifold is made up. A too long inlet manifold is not good because, the petrol/air vapour mix becomes droplets again on the wall of a too long manifold :D
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Re: VW Engine with reduction drive, ground adjustable prop and mount

Unread post by caliber » Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:12 pm

We have thought about modding the engine, and will do it if we can't find an alternative. Just thought it'd be easier to sell/swap it for another as we can't use the prop or reduction drive.
There's also no rush for this as the plane is a long ways off from flying so we'll just leave it available on the market for now, by the time we actually need an engine we'll look into modding it if we haven't had any other luck. :)
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Re: VW Engine with reduction drive, ground adjustable prop and mount

Unread post by GERMAN » Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:16 pm

Total weight?
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Re: VW Engine with reduction drive, ground adjustable prop and mount

Unread post by Jean Crous » Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:34 pm

GERMAN wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:16 pm
Total weight?
I would wager a quick guess and say +/- 95kg.
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Re: VW Engine with reduction drive, ground adjustable prop and mount

Unread post by caliber » Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:19 am

We did weigh it as best we could (using a bathroom scale 8-[ ) and got a weight of 110Kg, bearing in mind this includes the ground mount/stand and full oil so wet weight. So Jean's guess is probably pretty close for dry weight without the stand.
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Re: VW Engine with reduction drive, ground adjustable prop and mount

Unread post by Jean Crous » Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:56 pm

caliber wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:19 am
We did weigh it as best we could (using a bathroom scale 8-[ ) and got a weight of 110Kg, bearing in mind this includes the ground mount/stand and full oil so wet weight. So Jean's guess is probably pretty close for dry weight without the stand.
:D I have indeed weighed one myself on a new "Hang scale" , but it had the Neil Terblanche reduction drive unit. It weighed in at 95kg.
@ Caliber , just as a side note, those engines do not get "bored" to a bigger cc, rather the piston-sleeve set is changed , and the cranckshaft changed for longer stroke. If that is in the 1800cc range it will have 92mm sleeves and a 69mm stroke on the cranckshaft giving 1835cc.
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Re: VW Engine with reduction drive, ground adjustable prop and mount

Unread post by caliber » Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:26 pm

Jean Crous wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:56 pm
@ Caliber , just as a side note, those engines do not get "bored" to a bigger cc, rather the piston-sleeve set is changed , and the cranckshaft changed for longer stroke. If that is in the 1800cc range it will have 92mm sleeves and a 69mm stroke on the cranckshaft giving 1835cc.
Jean.
Ah thanks. Just my bad way of explaining it, my brother did tell me something like this, if I recall correctly ours has the piston/sleeve changed but not the crank so it's a bit less than that.
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Re: VW Engine with reduction drive, ground adjustable prop and mount

Unread post by Tony Forrester » Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:02 pm

Hmmm, rather expensive for a split prop and an engine that could only serve as an anchor in a salt water bay. :shock: :lol: . Invest in a decent unit before you spend good money trying to make that one work. [jean will want to kick my butt for this .... but.... it remains a "Very Wobbly" engine, and the only time a beetle ever gets to fly, is off the end of a pier! :cry:
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Re: VW Engine with reduction drive, ground adjustable prop and mount

Unread post by Multirotordronepilot » Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:27 pm

Tony Forrester wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:02 pm
Hmmm, rather expensive for a split prop and an engine that could only serve as an anchor in a salt water bay. :shock: :lol: . Invest in a decent unit before you spend good money trying to make that one work. [jean will want to kick my butt for this .... but.... it remains a "Very Wobbly" engine, and the only time a beetle ever gets to fly, is off the end of a pier! :cry:
Tony with all respect I really really wish you hadn't done that, but seen as you have, let me be the first to add some weight to the merits of a VW engine.

1st for some the mere engineering challenges on the ground is worth the time and effort, in fact I promise you if there were no challenges in making a VW engine work then it probably would not be an option. You see it takes a real man to decide to take on such a task. Anyone can go and purchase a rotax engine with which I have nothing against I believe they are a fantastic option for LSA airframes. But it takes a optimist, a forward thinker, someone with a rare skill set to tackle the challenges which a VW engine may present. The fearful should stay away, keep the boat in the dock. That's only the getting to run it on the ground qualities required.

2nd Not all VW engines are flown and then there are a few which are flown with only limited success. But most of the examples which have or are flying are successful, people such as Justin, Jean, Rudix, Gunter, Carlton and many more have some real experience building these engines and have logged 10's of thousands hours collectively behind VW engines.

3rd Just because someone can't understand the technology doesn't mean they should throw a negative blanket over the sale of such an engine as much as its become a fashion to do so in recent years.

All the best :D
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Re: VW Engine with reduction drive, ground adjustable prop and mount

Unread post by caliber » Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:51 pm

Thanks Multirotordronepilot :)

@Tony, our asking price is of course completely negotiable and only really intended as a starting point, very hard to know the value of these engines as there isn't any kind of public price tracker and they're not the sort of thing that sells every other day, I'd just as soon have listed it as "open to offers" but in my experience that only annoys interested parties. :lol:

As I mentioned a bit earlier, we are really not in a hurry to sell/trade it, I very much doubt we'll be needing the engine this year (aside from finishing the build, I don't even have a tail-dragger rating yet and my brother hasn't even completed his license so... 8-[ ) I think it only makes sense to try feel the market value starting from the high end rather than the low. We'd really be most happy to just perform an outright trade for something more "KR-2ish" but that's obviously a very long shot, still as we have time you never know. Alternatively if it comes to it we'll just remove the reduction drive and prop, sell them off separately and rework the engine to suit.

Regarding the prop it's not really "split" as far as I can tell, the visible "splits" near the root run along the wood lamination points and don't go very deep, either way my understanding is that there are places that service props and can fix up those sort of things.

As to flying beetles, given a set of wings I think Herbie could've done it. :lol:
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Re: VW Engine with reduction drive, ground adjustable prop and mount

Unread post by Ugly Duckling » Tue Mar 19, 2019 12:04 am

I have 140 hours behind VWs in Motorfalke. Our gliding club must have in excess of 1000 hours.
Engine related failures to date:
Wire in magneto fractured on the capacitor killing the spark. Not a VW part.
Circlip came off fuel pump pivot shaft. VW part.
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Re: VW Engine with reduction drive, ground adjustable prop and mount

Unread post by Cedric Snr » Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:42 am

VW all the way for me thanks =D> =D> =D> =D>
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Re: VW Engine with reduction drive, ground adjustable prop and mount

Unread post by homebuilt » Sun Mar 31, 2019 1:48 pm

I think if one wants to listen to stories that there are as many about the KR2 as there are about the VW. If you are a very wary person and lend your ear to all these stories then you should not fly but rather stay safely on the ground. If however, your passion is for flying, you will know that there is some danger in what we do and with this in mind, do everything possible to make it as safe as possible so here is my suggestion. Find out about the dangers of the KR2 as experienced by other pilots and bear this in mind when you take off in one. Find out about the dangers of the VW and do everything in your power to check and make sure your engine is sweet and properly engineered and maintained and that nobody has done any short cuts on this engine. The more homework you do, the better the understanding you will have in the "what to do's" and "what not to do's". Dont rush it but make sure. When you are sure, go ahead in confidence and believe in your equipment. Initially only fly around and over the local strip till you build up the confidence in your aircraft and its abilities then only after this venture out further. After all this keep learning and improving on your aircraft and your flying.
Do hope your project comes together and you find the right "fit " for the aircraft. Enjoy!

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