Drones Gauteng Highcourt

Unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV), commonly known as a drone and also referred to as an unpiloted aerial vehicle and a remotely piloted aircraft (RPA) by the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO), is an aircraft without a human pilot aboard.

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Re: Drones Gauteng Highcourt

Unread post by Wayne01 » Sat Mar 29, 2014 9:05 am

Companies like Trimble and others have invested millions in SA, they have lawyers who are at the front end of negotiations and very much in sync will what can and cant be done, what is legal and what is not, according to the big players what you are saying or suggesting is balls.
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Re: Drones Gauteng Highcourt

Unread post by Wayne01 » Sat Mar 29, 2014 9:10 am

Superfueler wrote:
A Corbett wrote:
heisan wrote:in South Africa, they are explicitly covered by the CARs.
CAR Part 1 defines a UAV to be "not a model". There are no other regulations covering their use.
This, ladies and Gentlemen is the crux of the matter.

And yep we do have a few companies in SA supplying good components but when you want decent minature optics for specialised applications ( you need to look to the USA and they are quite restrictive with certain component exports to non US Citizens)

Most companies only offer a few days training. I am doing training over 3 months. First remote control flying then the video and practicing with a distributors model and instruction in block hours. You really need to be properly trained on these things and no doubt about it previous remote control aircraft experience puts you well ahead. I have a lot of catching up to do.
If you referring to the tau range of ir they can be purchased locally, go to your local BMW dealership and buy a pathfinder module, inside is the tau module, half the price
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Re: Drones Gauteng Highcourt

Unread post by A Corbett » Sat Mar 29, 2014 8:18 pm

heisan wrote:The Domestic Air Services Act defines commercial use of an aircraft (as defined in the Civil Aviation Act), and the regulations around licensing such commercial operations.
The Air Services Licensing Act only applies to commercial aviation services. It does not apply where an aircraft happens to be used for a company's own commercial activities.

1. Definitions.
In this Act, unless the context otherwise indicates—
“air service” means any service operated by means of an aircraft for re-
ward, but shall not include
(a) the hiring out of an aircraft together with the crew to a licensee;
(b) a service operated solely for the benefit of a company or a group of
companies, or any subsidiary thereof, in its commercial activities by a
person who is a member or in the employ of such company or group of
companies or subsidiary, and which is not offered for reward to the
public in general
;
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Re: Drones Gauteng Highcourt

Unread post by farmpilot » Sun Mar 30, 2014 7:15 pm

So if they will be prosecuted how come they fly with impunity? The open credits to Carte Blanche? The Pistorius trial, the T20, Mandela in hospital - all pointed out to the CAA and nothing done
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Re: Drones Gauteng Highcourt

Unread post by Snitch » Tue Apr 01, 2014 11:30 am

Anyone hear about CUAASA before ?

www.cuaasa.org
The Commercial Unmanned Aircraft Association of Southern Africa welcomes all Unmanned Aerial Vehicle operators and enthusiasts to join forces. CUAASA under the umbrella of CAASA - The Commercial Aviation Association of Southern Africa is positioned to support all our members in getting our industry and passion on the aviation map in Southern Africa in the shortest possible time frame.

Members will benefit for the support of CUAASA and that of “Our Big Brother” CAASA.

CUAASA members will be able to assist and guide the future of our Industry so as to ensure we can all operate safely and with in an acceptable set of rules and regulations. Members will also have access to our collective knowledge base and be part of our marketing and exhibition plan.

Members will also have excellent networking opportunities during and after the “Hard work sessions” where we will constantly work on making our industry effective and safe for all.

Members will be invited to all National Conferences and Work Groups and will get excellent exposure during National and International Marketing events and Exhibitions.

Membership fees is structured as follow for all members joining in 2014 (Introduction Affiliation offer 2014)

Total yearly membership fee of R 500.00 per year. or any portion there off.

This will be used as follows: R 400.00 for Affiliation to CAASA and R 100.00 for CUAASA Membership

Please join CUAASA and become an active team member!
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Re: Drones Gauteng Highcourt

Unread post by heisan » Tue Apr 01, 2014 3:51 pm

A Corbett wrote:
heisan wrote:The Domestic Air Services Act defines commercial use of an aircraft (as defined in the Civil Aviation Act), and the regulations around licensing such commercial operations.
The Air Services Licensing Act only applies to commercial aviation services. It does not apply where an aircraft happens to be used for a company's own commercial activities.

1. Definitions.
In this Act, unless the context otherwise indicates—
“air service” means any service operated by means of an aircraft for re-
ward, but shall not include
(a) the hiring out of an aircraft together with the crew to a licensee;
(b) a service operated solely for the benefit of a company or a group of
companies, or any subsidiary thereof, in its commercial activities by a
person who is a member or in the employ of such company or group of
companies or subsidiary, and which is not offered for reward to the
public in general
;
How many companies use it entirely internally? Some movie companies - if they own and operate the drones as part of their production team. And jackadanda's traffic services. Most other operations require an ASL. Since the Civil Aviation Act and Domestic Air Services Act make no differentiation between types of aircraft, anything that requires an ASL for manned operations will require one for unmanned. So aerial photography, surveying, game counting, etc. all require an ASL if you sell the service to someone else.
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Re: Drones Gauteng Highcourt

Unread post by heisan » Tue Apr 01, 2014 3:52 pm

bumjive01 wrote:Companies like Trimble and others have invested millions in SA, they have lawyers who are at the front end of negotiations and very much in sync will what can and cant be done, what is legal and what is not, according to the big players what you are saying or suggesting is balls.
Don't just say it is bollocks. Look through the rest, and show my anything that I have said that is wrong.
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Re: Drones Gauteng Highcourt

Unread post by A Corbett » Tue Apr 01, 2014 10:06 pm

heisan wrote:
A Corbett wrote:
heisan wrote:The Domestic Air Services Act defines commercial use of an aircraft (as defined in the Civil Aviation Act), and the regulations around licensing such commercial operations.
The Air Services Licensing Act only applies to commercial aviation services. It does not apply where an aircraft happens to be used for a company's own commercial activities.

1. Definitions.
In this Act, unless the context otherwise indicates—
“air service” means any service operated by means of an aircraft for re-
ward, but shall not include
(a) the hiring out of an aircraft together with the crew to a licensee;
(b) a service operated solely for the benefit of a company or a group of
companies, or any subsidiary thereof, in its commercial activities by a
person who is a member or in the employ of such company or group of
companies or subsidiary, and which is not offered for reward to the
public in general
;
How many companies use it entirely internally? Some movie companies - if they own and operate the drones as part of their production team. And jackadanda's traffic services. Most other operations require an ASL. Since the Civil Aviation Act and Domestic Air Services Act make no differentiation between types of aircraft, anything that requires an ASL for manned operations will require one for unmanned. So aerial photography, surveying, game counting, etc. all require an ASL if you sell the service to someone else.
So if an aviation photographer like Bearcat or any of the others in the Photog forum sells a photograph facilitated by means of an aeroplane, whether it was a picture of an aircraft, from an aircraft, whether the aircraft was actually flying (manned or unmanned) or not, would require an ASL?

I think the CAA prosecutors could find a lot of villains right here on Avcom
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Re: Drones Gauteng Highcourt

Unread post by heisan » Wed Apr 02, 2014 7:55 am

A Corbett wrote: So if an aviation photographer like Bearcat or any of the others in the Photog forum sells a photograph facilitated by means of an aeroplane, whether it was a picture of an aircraft, from an aircraft, whether the aircraft was actually flying (manned or unmanned) or not, would require an ASL?

I think the CAA prosecutors could find a lot of villains right here on Avcom
That would be an interesting one. I am sure someone could make some lawyers fat and happy debating that in court. Have a look at the back of the Act for a list of existing categories of air services - these are the ones that definitely need a license. Others may need to be tested I court before any real clarity can be achieved.

Also, the CAA has nothing to do with this. This is a separate Act and is managed by the Air Services Licensing Council.
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Re: Drones Gauteng Highcourt

Unread post by GL » Wed Apr 02, 2014 1:32 pm

Press release
Civil Aviation Authority to crackdown on illegal drone flying

Midrand, Johannesburg, 02-04-2014. The South African Civil Aviation Authority (SACAA) is set to clampdown on the illegal flying, in civil airspace of Unmanned Aircraft Systems (UAS) or Unmanned Aircraft Vehicles (UAV), as normally referred to. The move was prompted by recent reports that purported that there are individuals and/or organisations that are already operating or intending to operate UAS in the South African civil aviation airspace.

“It is disconcerting to hear that there are individuals or organisations that, for some reason or another, are determined to contravene applicable international and local aviation prescripts. The fact is that the SACAA has not given any concession or approval to any organisation, individual, institution or government entity to operate UAS within the civil aviation airspace. Those that are flying any type of unmanned aircraft are doing so illegally; and as the regulator we cannot condone any form of blatant disregard of applicable rules,” said the Director of Civil Aviation, Ms Poppy Khoza.

The SACAA, as the regulator in the discharge of its mandate in terms of section 72 of the Civil Aviation Act, 2009(Act No 13 of 2009), with specific reference to the control and regulation of civil aviation safety and security, needs to put regulations in place which will deal with all the regulatory facets relating to UAV’s.

Unmanned aircraft systems or unmanned aerial vehicles are aircraft that can fly without a pilot on board. These aircraft come in all sorts of shapes and sizes and can be controlled remotely by an individual on the ground, in another aircraft or through an on board computer system.

“Unmanned aircraft systems are relatively a new component of the civil aviation framework, one which the SACAA, together with other regulators worldwide and under the guidance of the International Civil Aviation Organisation, are working to understand, define and ultimately integrate in to the civil aviation sector. As such, the process of developing policies, procedures, regulations and associated standards in order to certify and subsequently authorise operation of UAS is currently in progress,” Khoza explained.

South Africa as an ICAO member state is actively involved in the ICAO Unmanned Aircraft Systems Study Group to develop guidance material and standards to guide contracting states in the development of their national guidance material and regulations. In addition, the SACAA is working closely with the industry and relevant agencies to draft appropriate regulations.

There are many factors to consider in the process of developing guidelines for authorisation. “As much as we are enthusiastic about the integration of UAS into the civilian airspace, we need to be mindful of various security and safety aspects. Key among these is the need to ensure that the technology installed on UAS is able to detect and avoid incidents and accidents. We also need to develop robust standards that will ensure separation from other aircraft or objects. There is also a need to ensure that the allocated frequency spectrum is secure in order to ensure protection from unintentional or unlawful interference with the UAS,” Khoza elaborated.

In collaboration with member states, including South Africa, the International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO) is working towards providing a regulatory framework through Standards and Recommended Practices (SARPs), with supporting Procedures for Air Navigation Services (PANS) and guidance material, to underpin routine operation of UAS in a safe, harmonised and seamless manner comparable to that of manned operations.

“The SACAA acknowledges that the current civil aviation legislation does not provide for certification, registration and/or operation of UAS in the South African civil aviation airspace. We are also cognizant of the urgent need and demand for UAS usage for commercial and many other reasons. Hence, the SACAA has allocated the necessary resources to the UAS programme to ensure a speedy integration of drones into the South Africa airspace. However, until then we would like to appeal to those that are disregarding the laws to desist from such actions,” Khoza concluded.
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Re: Drones Gauteng Highcourt

Unread post by Viking » Wed Apr 02, 2014 2:39 pm

I have, on a different tread, expressed my concerns about NOT talking to CAA on this matter.
It seems too many people have p!&&ed them off at the moment, and they have shut the door for a while.

Get the authorities involved. Have an open discussion with them. There are people who will listen to you. Just get hold of the right person.
I have a lot of experience in setting up commercial UAV projects in Sweden and the rest of Scandinavia. I am part of the Swedish FPV association, as well as a member on the board for commercial UAV operators.
We have had communications with the authorities and we have discussed various options.
We got the Swedish CAA, the transport department as well as the Military around the table, and we have formulated the rules and regs that apply.

By doing things illegal is not going to get you far.
By communicating, and working together with the authorities, you can actually have a say in the matter, and create the amount (or lack of) red tape and hoops you have to jump through to get your operators permit to fly UAVs.
It seems that there are a few individuals that have ruined it for the majority of serious players in SA.

Start by contacting Goffel here on AVCOM, he will point you in the right direction...

Good luck.
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Re: Drones Gauteng Highcourt

Unread post by pilotC » Wed Apr 02, 2014 3:41 pm

The problem is when the CAA was approached they said they hav shelved the project of UAV regulations. So what must people do?
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Re: Drones Gauteng Highcourt

Unread post by blender » Wed Apr 02, 2014 4:04 pm

pilotC wrote:The problem is when the CAA was approached they said they hav shelved the project of UAV regulations. So what must people do?
Interesting comment, I have direct knowledge of a recent instance where the SACAA cooperated to facilitate the legally aproved operation of a UAS in Durban during the recent SKY GP.
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Re: Drones Gauteng Highcourt

Unread post by farmpilot » Wed Apr 02, 2014 4:44 pm

And the document by Guy above clearly says ALL UAS operations are illegal - it either is or is not legal. You can't be a little bit pregnant.
So is it, or is it not, legal? Please CAA, tell us what's going on.
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Re: Drones Gauteng Highcourt

Unread post by pilotC » Wed Apr 02, 2014 10:01 pm

blender wrote:
pilotC wrote:The problem is when the CAA was approached they said they hav shelved the project of UAV regulations. So what must people do?
Interesting comment, I have direct knowledge of a recent instance where the SACAA cooperated to facilitate the legally aproved operation of a UAS in Durban during the recent SKY GP.
I was informed of this by two CAA officials last year. So maybe things have changed. The CAA needs to come up with an interim approval process until they sort their regulations out.

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