It was just a question of time....

Unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV), commonly known as a drone and also referred to as an unpiloted aerial vehicle and a remotely piloted aircraft (RPA) by the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO), is an aircraft without a human pilot aboard.

Moderator: Moderators

Swampdonkey
Tree Tousand
Tree Tousand
Posts: 3754
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 1:52 pm
Has liked: 40 times
Been liked: 46 times

Re: It was just a question of time....

Unread post by Swampdonkey » Sun Oct 12, 2014 5:45 pm

What if the Heli was operating as a camera ship in a legal part 127 filming operation, and the "drone" was also filming the same event, but in the completely unregulated way in which they get flown, what does the law say?
"Excuse me while I kiss the sky!" ---Jimi---1967-
User avatar
Hexapilot
Steep Turn Left
Posts: 303
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2014 11:51 am
Closest Airfield: Waterkloof
Location: Pretoria
Has liked: 4 times
Been liked: 13 times

Re: It was just a question of time....

Unread post by Hexapilot » Sun Oct 12, 2014 5:59 pm

OK,
So I am out flying my drone above a canoe race in the middle of nowhere to film my buddy negotiating the rapids, so we can watch the action at the braai afterwards.
I have taken care to avoid flying over public, I am not in controlled airspace and I am not earning any money fot this.
Along comes a chopper that flies low over the river, sees me and sh1ts himself, takes evasive action, and reports me to CAA. All of a sudden I am guilty of dangerous behaviour and being subjected to the Avcom lynch mob for daring to fly my "toy" in free airspace.
Yeah yeah!
All I can say is that you " real" pilots better have your eyes tested when flying low, because you do not have more right to be in the sky than me, and I am not going to stop enjoying myself either:)
Oh and I have been flying kites as well, with cameras on, and no one has ever b1tched about that...
My kite weighs more than my drone, and I fly it higher as well. Will that also floor a heli?
Going fast
Going up
Say my name...

DISCLAIMER:
DO NOT TAKE ME SERIOUSLY!!!
User avatar
Euro Flyer
Frequent AvComer
Posts: 634
Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2003 9:17 pm
Closest Airfield: Country side grass strip
Location: Location, Location, Location
Has liked: 143 times
Been liked: 6 times

Re: It was just a question of time....

Unread post by Euro Flyer » Sun Oct 12, 2014 6:17 pm

FATBOY wrote:What if the Heli was operating as a camera ship in a legal part 127 filming operation, and the "drone" was also filming the same event, but in the completely unregulated way in which they get flown, what does the law say?
Would one perhaps expect such a scenario to be NOTAM'ed?

EF
User avatar
flyingeeza
FREDA checks
Posts: 373
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2010 1:19 pm
Closest Airfield: Duxford
Location: ex FAVP, now based EGSU
Has liked: 6 times
Been liked: 0

Re: It was just a question of time....

Unread post by flyingeeza » Sun Oct 12, 2014 6:27 pm

Possibly, but even so what drone "pilot" :lol: reads NOTAMs?
farmpilot
Incipient Spin
Posts: 357
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 6:43 pm
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 3 times

Re: It was just a question of time....

Unread post by farmpilot » Sun Oct 12, 2014 6:35 pm

No but there might be a CAMU in effect.
Euro Flyer wrote:
FATBOY wrote:What if the Heli was operating as a camera ship in a legal part 127 filming operation, and the "drone" was also filming the same event, but in the completely unregulated way in which they get flown, what does the law say?
Would one perhaps expect such a scenario to be NOTAM'ed?

EF
farmpilot
Incipient Spin
Posts: 357
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 6:43 pm
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 3 times

Re: It was just a question of time....

Unread post by farmpilot » Sun Oct 12, 2014 6:38 pm

Hexapilot wrote:OK,
So I am out flying my drone above a canoe race in the middle of nowhere to film my buddy negotiating the rapids, so we can watch the action at the braai afterwards.
I have taken care to avoid flying over public, I am not in controlled airspace and I am not earning any money fot this.
Along comes a chopper that flies low over the river, sees me and sh1ts himself, takes evasive action, and reports me to CAA. All of a sudden I am guilty of dangerous behaviour and being subjected to the Avcom lynch mob for daring to fly my "toy" in free airspace.
Yeah yeah!
All I can say is that you " real" pilots better have your eyes tested when flying low, because you do not have more right to be in the sky than me, and I am not going to stop enjoying myself either:)
Oh and I have been flying kites as well, with cameras on, and no one has ever b1tched about that...
My kite weighs more than my drone, and I fly it higher as well. Will that also floor a heli?
As long as you are complying with the rules then it's fine and legal - if you are not, well then it's a different story. The reason the "real" pilots are upset I thought would be obvious. You get a bent "toy", the pilot and his pax get dead.
Swampdonkey
Tree Tousand
Tree Tousand
Posts: 3754
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 1:52 pm
Has liked: 40 times
Been liked: 46 times

Re: It was just a question of time....

Unread post by Swampdonkey » Sun Oct 12, 2014 6:48 pm

Hexapilot wrote:OK,
So I am out flying my drone above a canoe race in the middle of nowhere to film my buddy negotiating the rapids, so we can watch the action at the braai afterwards.
I have taken care to avoid flying over public, I am not in controlled airspace and I am not earning any money fot this.
Along comes a chopper that flies low over the river, sees me and sh1ts himself, takes evasive action, and reports me to CAA. All of a sudden I am guilty of dangerous behaviour and being subjected to the Avcom lynch mob for daring to fly my "toy" in free airspace.
Yeah yeah!
All I can say is that you " real" pilots better have your eyes tested when flying low, because you do not have more right to be in the sky than me, and I am not going to stop enjoying myself either:)
Oh and I have been flying kites as well, with cameras on, and no one has ever b1tched about that...
My kite weighs more than my drone, and I fly it higher as well. Will that also floor a heli?

If this is the general attitude of all "drone" operators, then its about time they got banned. [-X [-X [-X
"Excuse me while I kiss the sky!" ---Jimi---1967-
liaan
Power on stall
Posts: 349
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 12:38 am
Closest Airfield: FASH
Location: Stellies
Has liked: 27 times
Been liked: 4 times

Re: It was just a question of time....

Unread post by liaan » Sun Oct 12, 2014 6:51 pm

Hexapilot wrote:OK,

Oh and I have been flying kites as well, with cameras on, and no one has ever b1tched about that...
My kite weighs more than my drone, and I fly it higher as well. Will that also floor a heli?
So that will be lower than 150 ft or lower than typical blue gum tree?
bla bla fishpaste

I need spell Checker
sting
Reaching altitude
Posts: 237
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 7:14 am
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Re: It was just a question of time....

Unread post by sting » Sun Oct 12, 2014 6:58 pm

Drones are here to stay... they can do allot of things better, faster and cheaper then helis.. best we find a way to share the sky and respect each othet
farmpilot
Incipient Spin
Posts: 357
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 6:43 pm
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 3 times

Re: It was just a question of time....

Unread post by farmpilot » Sun Oct 12, 2014 7:06 pm

sting wrote:Drones are here to stay... they can do allot of things better, faster and cheaper then helis.. best we find a way to share the sky and respect each othet
I think we all need to have the same rules otherwise there can never be respect.
User avatar
cage
10000 and still climbing
10000 and still climbing
Posts: 10436
Joined: Mon Dec 23, 2013 9:47 am
Closest Airfield: FAGC
Location: ..for the grass 35
Has liked: 25 times
Been liked: 463 times

Re: It was just a question of time....

Unread post by cage » Sun Oct 12, 2014 7:20 pm

The current CAA guidance (or lack thereof) is quite clear that apart from RC "toys" in regulated areas any drone or UAS is illegal with (hopefully) legislation due in March 2015.
They actually use the example of a photographer using a drone and clearly state it is currently considered an unmanned aircraft.
Until there is proper regulation and licensing the current state of illegality needs to be accepted - you don't need to like it.
Unfortunately any muppet with a credit card can buy one and with zero training put legitimate and approved aviation operations at risk.

There is a proper place for licensed and trained operators of drones as well as recreational use - we are nowhere near a situation that can be considered safe.
User avatar
Hexapilot
Steep Turn Left
Posts: 303
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2014 11:51 am
Closest Airfield: Waterkloof
Location: Pretoria
Has liked: 4 times
Been liked: 13 times

Re: It was just a question of time....

Unread post by Hexapilot » Sun Oct 12, 2014 7:21 pm

You see Fatboy,
It is like this.
Most pimplefaced teenagers with daddys that have enough moola to buy a DJI Phantom, have not the foggiest idea that they are breaking any rules.
Heck, they do not even know that there are rules and regs limiting their fun.
All because they can buy these drones, legally off the shelf anywhere, anytime.
Not once are they told when and where to fly.
Now how do you regulate them?
By banning the commercial guys, you are only going to create enemies, and when the commercial guys see that the teenage boys are getting away with it, they too are going to consider to stuff the rules and fly anyway. This is the general mentality of how SA works nowadays.
By banning those who fly responsibly and want to bide by the rules, but still allow shops to sell these drones is not really going to cure the problem.
Too many rules and regulations.
Too many blanket bans.
People are getting tired of being told what not to do...
Going fast
Going up
Say my name...

DISCLAIMER:
DO NOT TAKE ME SERIOUSLY!!!
Wayne01
Frequent AvComer
Posts: 631
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2012 8:02 am
Closest Airfield: virginia
Location: durban
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 4 times

Re: It was just a question of time....

Unread post by Wayne01 » Sun Oct 12, 2014 7:26 pm

Its simple full size gets right of way. Weather you at a saama airfield or other.
MTex
Incipient Spin
Posts: 357
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 12:41 am
Location: Jhb
Has liked: 38 times
Been liked: 1 time

Re: It was just a question of time....

Unread post by MTex » Sun Oct 12, 2014 7:43 pm

All I can say is that you " real" pilots better have your eyes tested when flying low, because you do not have more right to be in the sky than me, and I am not going to stop enjoying myself either:)
hhmmm

Drone Pilot training/Rating/Testing/Competency validation?

Comm HeliPilot.....200+ hrs/Comm Licence/Exams/Medicals/Regular re-testing
User avatar
heisan
Six Tousand
Six Tousand
Posts: 6275
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 3:45 pm
Closest Airfield: Rhino Park
Location: Pretoria
Has liked: 42 times
Been liked: 416 times

Re: It was just a question of time....

Unread post by heisan » Sun Oct 12, 2014 7:44 pm

FATBOY wrote:What if the Heli was operating as a camera ship in a legal part 127 filming operation, and the "drone" was also filming the same event, but in the completely unregulated way in which they get flown, what does the law say?
The law is very odd in this regard. If the 'drone' was flown privately, for recreation, then it is classed as a 'model aircraft', and one set of rules apply. If it was flown commercially (with the intent to profit from the footage, perhaps), then it is classed as a 'UAV'.

Currently, all UAV ops are at best dodgy, or at worst completely illegal.

Model aircraft are a different story. If this was a recreational flight, then it is completely legal - as long as it was flown below 150' AGL (and did not cross a public road).

For some strange reason, SA CARS do not separate manned and unmanned heavier than air aircraft in the right of way rules, so the normal (to the right, has the right, etc) rules apply.

Typically though (although it does not seem to be a legal requirement), any reasonable model pilot will take every effort to avoid full size aircraft. It is not always that easy. Many model types are not particularly stable, so it is not really possible to scan ahead in your flight path (your eyes need to stay glued to the model), and it becomes very difficult to keep an eye out for full size aircraft.

In the end, what it comes down to, is that anything below 150' AGL is tiger country. There are many legal (and barely regulated) airspace uses below 150', like kites, balloons, model aircarft, etc, which are legally entitled to use the airspace, and be operated by completely uninformed operators. If you are forced to operate that low (like for example filming a canoe race), then you need to be extremely vigilant because in reality you are using airspace that is pretty much a free for all.

IF this 'drone' was operated as a model aircraft, and there was a collision, then (as the law stands at the moment) the helicopter pilot would probably be found to be responsible, unless it could be proven that the 'drone' pilot saw the helicopter, and deliberately flew towards it.
Justin Schoeman

ZU-FSR (Raven)

Return to “Drones, UAVs”