It was just a question of time....

Unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV), commonly known as a drone and also referred to as an unpiloted aerial vehicle and a remotely piloted aircraft (RPA) by the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO), is an aircraft without a human pilot aboard.

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Re: It was just a question of time....

Unread post by Viking » Mon Oct 13, 2014 12:08 pm

GCronselaar wrote:I don't wish to be an instigator but as I have a love for aviation in general, currently I only have money for flying RC/UAS/"Toys" and not full size... What i do not like is the whole attitude of PPL/CPL pilots towards UAS in general... Any UAS/RC operator flying above 150 ft should have his nuts squeezed by authorities, but should this then also apply to all full size pilots? From my limited time in life I should then have reported about 50 incidents I've witnessed, from microlite pilots skimming rooftops, to planes and helos doing stupid things... Recently while flying on a sports field (never higher than the light posts) an idiot pilot came chasing through between the light post, not once but a few times forcing us to dive our RC "toys" for him to pass but we just left it and off we went...

My suggestion to this whole matter, have the UAS/RC guys do an actual course on aviation safety and safe operating procedures... Any everyone just stick to their allocated airspace/ height restriction...

The sky would be incredibilly crowded if everything has to fly below 150'... :D :D :D
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Re: It was just a question of time....

Unread post by heisan » Mon Oct 13, 2014 12:57 pm

tanglefoot wrote:This is a quote of airlaw:
“Operation of model aircraft
94.06.11 Model aircraft are exempted from these regulations –
(a) except from regulation 94.05.1; and
(b) provided that no model aircraft shall be flown –
(i) higher than 150 feet above the surface; or
(ii) from or above a public road,

unless with the prior approval of the Director and on conditions determined by him or her; or
in airspace specifically approved for the purpose by the Director and on conditions set by him
or her for the use of such airspace.”
If you wish to quote "another thread" feel free to do so. If you wish to quote another part of airlaw then please be more specific.

PS: CAA's website is not that slow.
PPS: I am happy to learn. To be told I am wrong does not teach me anything.

PPPPS: Please don't quote draft legislation. It is a waste of our time.
To simplify the process, I have gone through all the fundamental Acts, CATs and CARs and tried to put together everything relevant to model aircraft, and started a new thread for it (so it is easy to reference) here:

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=144890

You will be pleased to know that I was wrong - I missed the fact that although removed from 94.06, the VFR by day limitations were included in 95.01 in the 2011 regulations.
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Re: It was just a question of time....

Unread post by GCronselaar » Mon Oct 13, 2014 1:12 pm

Viking wrote:
GCronselaar wrote:I don't wish to be an instigator but as I have a love for aviation in general, currently I only have money for flying RC/UAS/"Toys" and not full size... What i do not like is the whole attitude of PPL/CPL pilots towards UAS in general... Any UAS/RC operator flying above 150 ft should have his nuts squeezed by authorities, but should this then also apply to all full size pilots? From my limited time in life I should then have reported about 50 incidents I've witnessed, from microlite pilots skimming rooftops, to planes and helos doing stupid things... Recently while flying on a sports field (never higher than the light posts) an idiot pilot came chasing through between the light post, not once but a few times forcing us to dive our RC "toys" for him to pass but we just left it and off we went...

My suggestion to this whole matter, have the UAS/RC guys do an actual course on aviation safety and safe operating procedures... Any everyone just stick to their allocated airspace/ height restriction...

The sky would be incredibilly crowded if everything has to fly below 150'... :D :D :D
You miss read the context, it was meant that if UAS/RC pilots are going to be victimized by law, should full size operators also not be reported for every transgression.
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Re: It was just a question of time....

Unread post by ehs » Mon Oct 13, 2014 1:22 pm

GCronselaar wrote: You miss read the context, it was meant that if UAS/RC pilots are going to be victimized by law, should full size operators also not be reported for every transgression.
In theory they should be reported for every transgression anyway ...
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Re: It was just a question of time....

Unread post by STR82TH » Mon Oct 13, 2014 2:10 pm

FATBOY wrote:A birdie whispered in my ear;
"A helicopter being used to film the world renowned Fish river canoe marathon on Saturday had to take evasive action to miss being hit by an illegal drone being flown by an irresponsible person. The incident took place at the famous "Kieth's rapid" which was being watched by over a thousand people as the canoeists shot the famous rapid. It was by the grace of God that the helo pilot was not taken out by the drone. The drone pilots response to the near miss , was, "I am legal, I am allowed to fly as long as not in a built up area". The helo pilot could not be contacted at the time for a response, but apparently was very shaken. It is irresponsible actions like this that will have drones banned for life".
Small technicality the birdie was not correct on (but has absolutely no bearing on the arguments of this post):

Kieth's Flyover was negotiated on Friday 10th October 2014 by the canoeists participating in the 2014 Hansa Fish River Canoe Marathon, not on Saturday.

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Re: It was just a question of time....

Unread post by ehs » Mon Oct 13, 2014 2:27 pm

As an aside be interesting to know whether the rc operator was standing on the bridge, or the road verge, because then he would have been in contravention of the regs ...
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Re: It was just a question of time....

Unread post by crazydoc » Mon Oct 13, 2014 3:06 pm

There is a concrete bridge in the middle of nowhere over the river which converges through a rocky section with trees around, as well as lots of spectators. (Day one). I went underwater through this section and didnt see any drones or heli,s :lol: :lol: . Start of day two , i saw a drone/uas/ ,?four rotors hovering over the crowds on the river bank,i guess about 20 to 30 feet over my head . Couldnt see any cameras suspended but who knows. Saw the heli later downstream following the river at adequite hight. Also at the end of the race saw the heli flying over the crowds at least ?300-500ft. If heli comes closer, everybody obviously can hear it from far out and i would be surprised if drone pilot would fly in any manner to come close to chopper?(common sense).But flying over myself at the start of second day made me slightly nervous.
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Re: It was just a question of time....

Unread post by STR82TH » Mon Oct 13, 2014 3:36 pm

Crazydoc, caught any crayfish at Keith's ?

Back to topic.
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Re: It was just a question of time....

Unread post by ehs » Mon Oct 13, 2014 3:37 pm

20 - 30 feet? next time take a shotgun, if you hit it you get to keep the camera :twisted:

The op quoted a source as saying there was an unpleasant moment between the helo and the rc, enough to leave the poor benighted pilot shaken but not stirred ... that's what triggered the debate.

Nice looking bit of ww enough to take the plastics off the roof ... :lol:
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Re: It was just a question of time....

Unread post by LavisDiam » Mon Oct 13, 2014 4:12 pm

Someone flying a toy around doesn't know what a REAL aircraft is cable of. Also they don't know what that little drone could do to a big machine like that so you get curious and fly it closely and dangerously to obviously receive a reaction from the manned aircraft and in my mind I think it would do a lot of damage and take many lives, which is why you would give way to the manned aircraft in the first place, its much easier to maneuver your drone out the way... I speak from nearly having an accident climbing out of Panorama in a Sling and one of those things came right past our window at more or less the same altitude, you'll never have enough time to get out the way, safely, when the unmanned aircraft could acknowledge the approach aircraft and fly at a decent altitude and distance until the traffic has moved. That's why I agree with maybe putting regulations in place to keep both parties happy, maybe by saying when there is other traffic in the vicinity to fly low and slow or land the drone until the other traffic has moved off, I don't know maybe an exam of some sort :/ ???
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Re: It was just a question of time....

Unread post by Hexapilot » Mon Oct 13, 2014 4:21 pm

By regulating and banning the hell out of flying drones is not going to solve the problem.
They still sell them in shops and over the net. It is legal to own one, and legal to buy one.
People WILL fly them, if they buy them.
If the rules are too stringent, people will give it the middle finger and fly anyway. In for a penny, in for a pound. They will most probably fly higher and more dangerously.
Give them something to fly in. Heck 150 feet is plenty of height for most commercial and pleasure drone pilots. Let them have that space, outside CTR and other sensitive areas, like madibas house...
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Re: It was just a question of time....

Unread post by thereplacement » Mon Oct 13, 2014 4:39 pm

Dont know any of the details, BUT, how high was the Helo pilot? and if it was a bird, would the same apply? I dont want to stick up for the Drone pilot or the helo pilot, but if he was flying in airspace that is not legal (x meters AGL) then the Drone pilot cannot be held responsible. They say, if you swim with sharks, you probably will get bit.
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Re: It was just a question of time....

Unread post by ehs » Mon Oct 13, 2014 4:47 pm

thereplacement wrote:Dont know any of the details, BUT, how high was the Helo pilot? and if it was a bird, would the same apply? I dont want to stick up for the Drone pilot or the helo pilot, but if he was flying in airspace that is not legal (x meters AGL) then the Drone pilot cannot be held responsible. They say, if you swim with sharks, you probably will get bit.
You really need to read the thread ... :wink:
Last edited by ehs on Mon Oct 13, 2014 4:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: It was just a question of time....

Unread post by cage » Mon Oct 13, 2014 4:49 pm

thereplacement wrote: and if it was a bird, would the same apply?
Was the bird flying for recreation or for commercial gain?
:lol: :lol:
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Re: It was just a question of time....

Unread post by Zulu01 » Mon Oct 13, 2014 5:22 pm

Of relevance to this thread, the FAA have just cancelled the 30 odd year existing RC rules and will be replacing them with new rules that will include Quads and UAV's

The old RC rules were 400 ft and 2 miles from an airport
The FAA now says the old model airplane guidelines are superseded by a section of the FAA Modernization and Reform Act which also "provides guidance to the model aircraft industry." The difference is that the new regs also include enforcement and penalty provisions that allow the FAA to investigate and sanction those who run afoul of the reg. The memo also indicates the FAA is planning to issue a new advisory circular to cover hobbyists. Meanwhile, according to Motherboard, the new regs are being challenged by at least three lawsuits.
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