Preprogrammed plane to fly fence surveillance.

Unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV), commonly known as a drone and also referred to as an unpiloted aerial vehicle and a remotely piloted aircraft (RPA) by the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO), is an aircraft without a human pilot aboard.

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Re: Preprogrammed plane to fly fence surveillance.

Unread post by DipStick » Wed Oct 25, 2017 4:40 pm

For open source setup that works very well, i've used it on a drone I built, this controller can be used for fixed wing as well:

Hardware:
https://hobbyking.com/en_us/hkpilot32-a ... 33mhz.html

Software and Info:
http://ardupilot.org/plane/index.html
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Re: Preprogrammed plane to fly fence surveillance.

Unread post by Trevor Duane » Thu Oct 26, 2017 8:16 am

foxbat wrote:Line of sight extends to no more than 500 meters from the operator and a Phantom is not visible well before your reach that distance.

As a private operator you are still subject to the provisions of part 101 and i dont see you easily gaining BVLOS approval without an ROC.

Negative on this, forget about part 101 within this context. If you are flying on your own pvt property and at your specified height of 150ft AGL then you will fall under part 94. Part 94 specifies that any model aircraft flown at up to 150ft AGL will fall well within your requirements. I have experience with all A/C types both VLOS/EVLOS and BVLOS and unless you have ideal weather all year around go with a multirotor and a good few extra batteries. There will be many times where you will not be able to operate your FW because of weather. Also you would much rather be landing from you stoep than having to walk out into the veld to recover your FW after a mission.

Dont worry about them seeing you, you want them to see you as then your mission becomes a deterrent and not a situation where you need to engage with trespassers. Believe me the Nav lights on a Phantom will make sure they see there is something there in the sky and they are being monitored and they will bug out fast.
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Re: Preprogrammed plane to fly fence surveillance.

Unread post by Ugly Duckling » Thu Oct 26, 2017 8:22 am

Multirotordronepilot wrote:
foxbat wrote:Line of sight extends to no more than 500 meters from the operator and a Phantom is not visible well before your reach that distance.

As a private operator you are still subject to the provisions of part 101 and i dont see you easily gaining BVLOS approval without an ROC.

Negative on this, forget about part 101 within this context. If you are flying on your own pvt property and at your specified height of 150ft AGL then you will fall under part 94. Part 94 specifies that any model aircraft flown at up to 150ft AGL will fall well within your requirements. I have experience with all A/C types both VLOS/EVLOS and BVLOS and unless you have ideal weather all year around go with a multirotor and a good few extra batteries. There will be many times where you will not be able to operate your FW because of weather. Also you would much rather be landing from you stoep than having to walk out into the veld to recover your FW after a mission.

Dont worry about them seeing you, you want them to see you as then your mission becomes a deterrent and not a situation where you need to engage with trespassers. Believe me the Nav lights on a Phantom will make sure they see there is something there in the sky and they are being monitored and they will bug out fast.
I like this approach =D>
Thank you for your input :D
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Re: Preprogrammed plane to fly fence surveillance.

Unread post by foxbat » Thu Oct 26, 2017 11:51 am

Unfortunately this is incorrect, part 94 applies to model aircraft flown solely for recreational purposes only. As soon as you accomplish as task then it becomes a private use RPAS (or perhaps corporate use depending on the context) and part 101 applies, albeit with less requirements in terms of licencing etc than for commercial ops.

Even if part 94 applied, model aircraft must strictly be flown only Line of Sight.

Beyond line of sight operations is a very different animal and requires you to satisfy the CAA that you can fulfill your Part 91 responsibility to see and avoid other aircraft. Even though it is technically possible you are putting the lives of manned aircraft at risk if you don't know what is going on with your drone over the horizon or behind the hill...
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Re: Preprogrammed plane to fly fence surveillance.

Unread post by Bobsmyuncle » Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:35 pm

UD, without hijacking your thread, I am also in the market for a very similar application. However my problem is line of sight, I don't have 400 m of continuous flat ground on our farm and unless I am in an aircraft I would not be able to maintain line of sight. My application would further involve short night flights as a deterrent rather than an observation platform. Clearly at night time the line of sight option is eliminated completely. However from a practical aspect, (legalities aside), could the operators out there tell me whether it is possible to get a drone that would take off, follow a predetermined route at or below 150' over terrain that varies as much as 1000' in elevation, and then return itself to base? A couple of blinking LED lights to serve as identification from the ground, just to alert any unwelcome visitors that there is potentially an eye in the sky. I am aware that the legalities are a hurdle but would something like a Phantom quad serve the application. Would really appreciate some further advice from the boffins please.
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Re: Preprogrammed plane to fly fence surveillance.

Unread post by Ugly Duckling » Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:51 pm

Bobsmyuncle wrote:UD, without hijacking your thread, I am also in the market for a very similar application.
Cheers, Giles
Hi Giles

Welcome to the club :D

The info here viewtopic.php?p=1885447#p1883653 gives you all the flight envelope options you require even ground movement. The module is available locally as well https://neotronics.co.za/buy-electronic ... uct_id=261
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Re: Preprogrammed plane to fly fence surveillance.

Unread post by Bobsmyuncle » Tue Oct 31, 2017 3:57 pm

Thanks UD, To be honest I am a techno dorffy. So would it be a reasonable assumption that with a standard Phantom type drone, you could fit the hardware and you would then be able to program a flight path that could be followed, even at night? From what I can gather the legalities possibly prevent that as it somehow becomes a commercial operation and is technically out of line of sight? Obviously I am not looking at a commercial operation but more a personal safety monitor operating solely on my my own property. Can the guys with legal knowledge comment on that? I do not think that I would be able to use it as a fence inspection tool, it is often difficult enough to pick up entry points when on foot patrol let alone trying to visualize it on a computer screen.
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Re: Preprogrammed plane to fly fence surveillance.

Unread post by Ugly Duckling » Tue Oct 31, 2017 4:46 pm

The legal eagles are saying No No but what the heck I'm may be going to give it a go.
If there is space in your drone it can do the job.
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Re: Preprogrammed plane to fly fence surveillance.

Unread post by Bobsmyuncle » Wed Nov 01, 2017 6:06 pm

I would like to think as responsible pilots that we would be able to ensure that contact between a drone and a fixed wing is avoided. To be honest if a FW or eggbeater type impacts a drone at below 150' in our area then the gene pool may be better off :oops: :oops: It is rugged terrain and I think a drone would cover in 5 minutes, what would take me 5 hours. Thanks for the advice, have you decided on any options yet? Cheers, Giles
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Re: Preprogrammed plane to fly fence surveillance.

Unread post by Trevor Duane » Sat Nov 04, 2017 5:46 am

Bobsmyuncle wrote:UD, without hijacking your thread, I am also in the market for a very similar application. However my problem is line of sight, I don't have 400 m of continuous flat ground on our farm and unless I am in an aircraft I would not be able to maintain line of sight. My application would further involve short night flights as a deterrent rather than an observation platform. Clearly at night time the line of sight option is eliminated completely. However from a practical aspect, (legalities aside), could the operators out there tell me whether it is possible to get a drone that would take off, follow a predetermined route at or below 150' over terrain that varies as much as 1000' in elevation, and then return itself to base? A couple of blinking LED lights to serve as identification from the ground, just to alert any unwelcome visitors that there is potentially an eye in the sky. I am aware that the legalities are a hurdle but would something like a Phantom quad serve the application. Would really appreciate some further advice from the boffins please.
Cheers, Giles
So the answer right now is no it is not legal but yes it is very possible. In fact the systems are well suited to your application wrt elevation. They use AGL to navigate as apposed to ASL and when used with software such as mission planner which accounts for ELV all you need to do is specify what AGL the aircraft should be over a specific waypoint. That's the practical part. For the regulations to be met you may need to wait some time before you could operate legally in this way. What you will need to do is a BVLOS rating following an RPL and then of course CAA need to approve BVLOS ops flights. All is in motion and only time is needed at this stage. I can send you details of a local business who can build the aircraft for you.
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Re: Preprogrammed plane to fly fence surveillance.

Unread post by Bobsmyuncle » Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:24 am

Thanks for that input MRDP, that is just the info I am looking for. Would appreciate the contact details if you can post or PM that would be great. Also any info on the RPL as I would like to be as legal as possible from the outset.
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Re: Preprogrammed plane to fly fence surveillance.

Unread post by edwoodza » Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:49 am

Yeah sadly 101 is clear and differentiates between other sections and RC
One needs to ask the question
1. are you flying the drone/rpas for fun (selfies and hobby flying)
2. are you flying the drone for commercial/corporate use,

With most real world applications and this eg the answer would be 2. Here since its a game farm this is 2.
Which means welcome to the world of hurt called RPAS and applying for a ROC.

You could do it the ZA way, Illegally but i caution you on that as CAA are about to klap people even harder than the current R50 000 fine and 2 years in prison. (most people go with the approach we will not get caught but that is dangerous)
Also being involved in illegal drone operations being a PPl or CPL could affect your license as well if caught as you are breaking the Civil Aviation laws etc.
Moderators Message:
Defamatory statement removed. If you wish to repost, please do so along with your proof supporting the allegation
When looking at any commercial RPAS or drones, check out the pedegree, experience and qualifications of those you use. Most are fly by night, few have proven track record, most are RC flyers trying to cash in on RPAS. You pay more but in the end you save alot more going with experience.

The big frustration in ZA is there are many great applications for drones etc but the models dont work for legal operations under the current infrastructure.
..
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Re: Preprogrammed plane to fly fence surveillance.

Unread post by Jack Welles » Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:15 pm

edwoodza wrote:Yeah sadly 101 is clear and differentiates between other sections and RC
One needs to ask the question
1. are you flying the drone/rpas for fun (selfies and hobby flying)
2. are you flying the drone for commercial/corporate use,
With most real world applications and this eg the answer would be 2. Here since its a game farm this is 2.
Which means welcome to the world of hurt called RPAS and applying for a ROC..
Correct me if I'm wrong, but AFAIK (I was researching this for another application and would love to hear differently) there is, at this time, no provision in the regs for BVLOS ops?
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Re: Preprogrammed plane to fly fence surveillance.

Unread post by edwoodza » Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:21 pm

There is BVLOS in 101
BUT to get to use it you need to have it approved in your ROC OM and then demonstrate that aircraft confirms to the caa required spec for BVLOS (as well as massive safety case as well) in the RLA phase
Last i checked there was only so far 1 ROC operator who is approved to BVLOS (that alone says what a cluster it is)

Its possible, but improbable to get BVLOS. (just my 101 jaded opinion)

for those interested here is the section in Part 101:

Beyond visual line-of-sight
101.05.11 (1) An RPA shall not be operated beyond visual-line-of-sight unless by the holder of an ROC and as approved by the Director in the operations manual.
(2) The Director may approve B-VLOS operation subject to the operator meeting the requirements prescribed in Document SA-CATS 101.
(3) Approved B-VLOS operations may only be conducted in VMC, below 400ft above surface level, unless otherwise approved by the Director.
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Re: Preprogrammed plane to fly fence surveillance.

Unread post by 747TDR » Thu Nov 09, 2017 4:05 pm

edwoodza wrote:Moderators Message:
Defamatory statement removed. If you wish to repost, please do so along with your proof supporting the allegation
When looking at any commercial RPAS or drones, check out the pedegree, experience and qualifications of those you use. Most are fly by night, few have proven track record, most are RC flyers trying to cash in on RPAS. You pay more but in the end you save alot more going with experience.
And slagging off the man in public here on Avcom is a good idea because...?

Having worked with ...... professionally, and being able to call him a friend, I think your evaluation of him is way off the mark.

Let's hope the law runs its course...

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