DANGER!! DANGER! DRONE ALERT!! Pretoria area

Unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV), commonly known as a drone and also referred to as an unpiloted aerial vehicle and a remotely piloted aircraft (RPA) by the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO), is an aircraft without a human pilot aboard.

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heinrich
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Re: DANGER!! DANGER! DRONE ALERT!! Pretoria area

Unread post by heinrich » Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:16 pm

Jack Welles wrote:And just seeing the thing flying around how would you know whether the drone operator had pre-organised CAA permission or not?
That was what I was trying to get across earlier as well. It seems like we're heading for a "there's a drone, it must be illegal" situation.
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Re: DANGER!! DANGER! DRONE ALERT!! Pretoria area

Unread post by Shepherd » Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:11 pm

In short... a legal operation would be with a registered drone.

It has to be marked specifically with the tail number and written in black with yellow background...

I am on mobile so dont have the links and references at hand, maybe someone can assist here.

However there are specific ways to mark it to be compliant...

Having said that... all that means is the pilot is a licensed RPL holder and flying a CAA registered drone... NOT that he is a legal ROC holder...

Also assuming if you approach the pilot in a decent manner and he/she is legal, he/she would have the appropriate flight manuals and opspecs on hand to address any concerns and prove they are legal....

So before shooting drones out the sky perhaps buy a pair of binoculars and scope out for a tail number first...
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Re: DANGER!! DANGER! DRONE ALERT!! Pretoria area

Unread post by The_Kev » Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:15 pm

Yeah, great idea and the flying squad takes the operator out with a double tap to the head after the call about a grenade strapped to the drone...

Later we find out he was a non commercial real estate agent, pulling a second job as barman to get his kids through a proper school, who was shooting his own property photos and he had already phoned FAWK and told them what he was up to and they said "cool just keep it below 100m"...

Maybe we should set up ambushes in the parking lots near stores that sell drones? Sort out the problem before it becomes a problem....
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Re: DANGER!! DANGER! DRONE ALERT!! Pretoria area

Unread post by Shepherd » Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:44 pm

Blackwing wrote:Back to the original topic of this post.

The guy was either playing dumb, or he really didnt know too much about what he was doing wrong.

Maybe the approach should rather be to educate people? No one responds well to threats and it will probably make some guys fly illegal (unsafe) just to prove a point.

Maybe drive around with those two pamphlets from the CAA mentioned above and hand them out to a drone operator that you think is acting un-safe/illegal.

I for one am prepping a "documentation pack" to keep in my drone bag that I can produce if someone hassles me. (The above two pamphlets included). Flying a drone has almost become a "shame on you" kind of thing even if the operator is not mucking about and causing problems. I really don't know why. The potential and technology are amazing. It should be embraced.

?
Exactly what I was thinking... SWATTING comes to mind... apparently a term for when people call in fake threats to law enforcement..

Recently a case in America about a kid that called a random bomb/terror threat to a local residence. The SWAT team showed up and gunned down an innocent father who was just answering the door bell...

Here is the story... https://www.rollingstone.com/glixel/new ... ge-w515401
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Re: DANGER!! DANGER! DRONE ALERT!! Pretoria area

Unread post by cardinalpilot » Sat Feb 10, 2018 7:31 am

Guys you are missing the point here! I asked the operator if he was registered first. Then if the drone was registered as well. He replied NO to both questions. That settles that speculation. I did inform him that he was operating illegal as well. Responce was I was just jealous because I can't afford one ( after owning 3 aircraft myself!!). Then he wanted to argue that he did register with the manufacturer and the other non valid arguments. As for the issue on the property. It is a security complex and he is renting a unit, so he did not have any premission to operate. In fact several people in the complex complain about it being used to peep through windows at night.
Last edited by cardinalpilot on Sat Feb 10, 2018 7:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: DANGER!! DANGER! DRONE ALERT!! Pretoria area

Unread post by cardinalpilot » Sat Feb 10, 2018 7:35 am

So before pointing fingers. now you have all the facts. This is firstly an aviation issue and secondly an invasion of privacy! So I feel that is enough grounds to investigate by the SAP and SACAA. My argument is still, do we need a serious accident killing people before this legislation will be forced down on the operaters and dealers selling the drones. You are not allowed to buy a car or gun without an lic. so these drones are just as lethal?
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Re: DANGER!! DANGER! DRONE ALERT!! Pretoria area

Unread post by Shepherd » Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:16 am

I dont think anyone is disputing the fact you ran into a bad apple.

I have ran into car drivers, taxis, cyclists, people in shopping centers... the list goes on. Bad apples are everywhere, particularly in SA where people often feel entitled for no reason other than existing in this world.

You are also 100% right, legislation needs to catch up and build a frame work where people have NO excuse NOT getting compliant.

But as it stands, even the ones that want to play ball are a bit over the state of things and going at it illegally. Or simply going to neighboring countries and operating there, same thing.

But interestingly the numbers will not get smaller, they continue to grow at a pace no country is able to keep up with and they are all on the back foot trying to deal with this influx of UAVs.

In March 2017, 15 months after starting the fairly simple registration process, the FAA had 770,000 registered UAVs. Have not been able to find todays figures but would assume its double if not tripled that by now.

I dont they they even have that many aircraft registered, or at least this number quickly caught up to the same amount and surpasses it shortly...

But, are you able to purchase an aircraft without a license to fly it?
Not asking if you can register it, but say I have a ton a money, could I purchase an aircraft?
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Re: DANGER!! DANGER! DRONE ALERT!! Pretoria area

Unread post by Jack Welles » Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:23 am

With the greatest respect to the OP but if I was lawfully going about my business (as it happens any business, not just drone flying) I would be rather put out if every Tom, Dick and Harry thought they had the right (which they don't) to interfere in what I was doing and demand that I produce proof that I am lawful.

If Mr Average Citizen has a serious problem, then he or she should call a cop (it's their job, not Mr AC's job), otherwise ... <-fill in the blank
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Re: DANGER!! DANGER! DRONE ALERT!! Pretoria area

Unread post by paulw » Sat Feb 10, 2018 9:06 am

Jack Welles wrote:With the greatest respect to the OP but if I was lawfully going about my business (as it happens any business, not just drone flying) I would be rather put out if every Tom, Dick and Harry thought they had the right (which they don't) to interfere in what I was doing and demand that I produce proof that I am lawful.

If Mr Average Citizen has a serious problem, then he or she should call a cop (it's their job, not Mr AC's job), otherwise ... <-fill in the blank
I am sorry, but I don't agree.
Why call the cops first if it can be resolved by just chatting nicely to the operator?
Sounds like he was not an approachable person, but often the operators would be. They may not know of the requirements of licenses.
And then a policeman and van can go and find more serious crime to resolve.

Now in this case talking to the gentlemen doesn't appear to help (maybe it did even though he was back chatting) and now the police can be called in.
If he is really a peeping tom with his drone, as discussed, maybe take videos with a cell phone and produce as evidence.
If other residents also complained, then maybe they are prepared to write affidavits?
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Re: DANGER!! DANGER! DRONE ALERT!! Pretoria area

Unread post by Jack Welles » Sat Feb 10, 2018 9:19 am

paulw wrote:
Jack Welles wrote:With the greatest respect to the OP but if I was lawfully going about my business (as it happens any business, not just drone flying) I would be rather put out if every Tom, Dick and Harry thought they had the right (which they don't) to interfere in what I was doing and demand that I produce proof that I am lawful.
If Mr Average Citizen has a serious problem, then he or she should call a cop (it's their job, not Mr AC's job), otherwise ... <-fill in the blank
I am sorry, but I don't agree.
Why call the cops first if it can be resolved by just chatting nicely to the operator?
Okay, but given that you would, as a private citizen, have no legal right to interrogate other private citizens, what would you do if the party politely tells you to "mind your own business" ?
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Re: DANGER!! DANGER! DRONE ALERT!! Pretoria area

Unread post by paulw » Sat Feb 10, 2018 9:24 am

Jack Welles wrote:
paulw wrote:
Jack Welles wrote:With the greatest respect to the OP but if I was lawfully going about my business (as it happens any business, not just drone flying) I would be rather put out if every Tom, Dick and Harry thought they had the right (which they don't) to interfere in what I was doing and demand that I produce proof that I am lawful.
If Mr Average Citizen has a serious problem, then he or she should call a cop (it's their job, not Mr AC's job), otherwise ... <-fill in the blank
I am sorry, but I don't agree.
Why call the cops first if it can be resolved by just chatting nicely to the operator?
Okay, but given that you would, as a private citizen, have no legal right to interrogate other private citizens, what would you do if the party politely tells you to "mind your own business" ?
Not interrogate, chatting. Then call the police if need be....
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Re: DANGER!! DANGER! DRONE ALERT!! Pretoria area

Unread post by Jack Welles » Sat Feb 10, 2018 9:39 am

paulw wrote: Not interrogate, chatting. Then call the police if need be....
Fair enough, not interrogate (which really just means ask formal questions - like "did you got a licence?"), just chatting (which means you really don't get to ask questions - but okay :? ).

So what would you do if the other person politely tells you that they're too busy to chat to any old Tom, Dick or Harry that comes along? Do you insist on interrupting them while they're busy? (wouldn't that be embarrassing?) And how do you "check up on them" if you don't ask questions?

These are genuine exploratory questions. On Avcom it's easy to write any old thing. I'm trying to figure out how your approach would work in the real world.

I'm thinking about the principle involved and therefore similar situations. Example, you're pre-flighting your aerie at Grand Central. Some oke comes up to you and asks if you're going to fly. You say yes. He says "where's your licence?". Would you be happy with that or would you ask him if he is licenced to check up on you, ie, he's an inspector with CAA?

Mauler (AOPA) would be the first to tell you that you're entitled to see the other oke's official standing before submitting to a ramp check. Or driving your car down the road! Why should the principle be different if you're flying a drone?
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Re: DANGER!! DANGER! DRONE ALERT!! Pretoria area

Unread post by paulw » Sat Feb 10, 2018 5:18 pm

Jeddie, you do have a point and your reasoning do makes sense and I do not want to argue your points.

But (there is always a but), the pilot at his hanger is not invading anyone's privacy by flying low with a camera over anyone's property unless doing surveying perhaps.

I think in this case we are comparing apples with oranges.

There is a nice civil way of asking a drone pilot once he landed his drone questions like :
"I also want a drone, where do I get a license" and that way subtle ask and educate the drone pilot as I am sure most do not know and deliberately fly drones illegally. I am convinced but might be entirely wrong that most buy and do not get educated on the license issue especially if you buy at the Oriental Plaza or China Mall.

And if you now with your new hobby go googling, you are going to Google "Drone Fun" and not "Drone License" unless you already know about the licenses.

I think those of us who know the rules should not "attack" these drone pilots, but educate them like a previous poster was saying about a document pack.
Maybe we don't need to go that far if we don't fly drones ourselves, but maybe have a link on a cellphone and show that to the drone pilot who doesn't know any better.

I really don't see any education regarding flying drones in the news, papers or anywhere. Same with lasers.
It is only us in this games of flying who know the dangers.
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Re: DANGER!! DANGER! DRONE ALERT!! Pretoria area

Unread post by Neville Ferreira » Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:33 pm

Any person who had a close call with a drone in flight feels very apposed to these toys.

Last year Jason Beamish and I displayed at the East London Port Festival. During the display Jason saw a drone while I was flying at low level at speeds above 260 Mph before pulling vertical. I never saw it but apparently it came within 20 meters of my flight path. We emediatly stopped the display until the sky was cleared.

The drone pilot a teenager was located in the crowds and by the time the police got hold of him he had deleted all the footage.

CAA wanted the youngster arrested and charged. We decided not to press charges as pilots but tried rather to use this youngster experience to advocate drone flight safety.

He spent 6 hours being detained by the police and Harbour Master while criminal charges were considered if he was arrested. Finally we got the massage through to him how close he came killing one of us.

Fly safe..
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Re: DANGER!! DANGER! DRONE ALERT!! Pretoria area

Unread post by Wonko the Sane » Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:35 pm

Wonko the Sane wrote:Hi cardinalpilot



Watch the fun ensue...


W
Exactly the responses I expected....Nice seeing active debate here. Clearly there is room for improvement on the general public's behavior and that of RPAS operators(pilots)

I will be copying and quoting from this post if you guys don't mind...

W
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My flying is not that bad....I've never left one up there..

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