But what about....

Unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV), commonly known as a drone and also referred to as an unpiloted aerial vehicle and a remotely piloted aircraft (RPA) by the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO), is an aircraft without a human pilot aboard.

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Shepherd
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But what about....

Unread post by Shepherd » Thu Feb 27, 2020 7:25 am

So here is a burning question...

Because you know there are no double standards for manned vs drones in SA... :roll:
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Your post is a great question, but did you really need to bring that in? Straight out the gate you are sowing discord and you expect a non combative response? You are now on the mods radar for trolling. Please dial it back.
For drones this is the definition about using a RPAS and taking photos or videos:

For private use –

(a) The RPAS may only be used for an individual's personal and private purposes where there is no commercial outcome, interest or gain;




But then why in manned aviation it's perfectly fine for a pilot, or his passengers, to take photos from aircraft and then post them around on social media? (Even whatsapp is a social media platform...)

Once in a while one of those photos might even get used in that new promo flyer/brochure for the charter business. But more often than that the private individual will post the photo and tag the company who in return would share it, because that's how digital marketing works, and build brand awareness...

But this is "interests or gain" is it not?

I am pretty sure it is not in their operating manual/ASL that this allows them to take/post photographs, or share photographs that would have been taken from the aircraft or in the aircraft itself. This would be perceived as "interests or gain." So what process is in place for such companies to obtain special or temporary permission to allow them to do this kind of work, or should those charter companies not be hiring another charter company with the right approvals for aerial photography?

Furthermore, should they not have specific approval in the operating manual to allow passengers to take photos from the aircraft period? Since this is commercial gain of many proportions. Not referring to a chartered aerial photography flight, which would obviously should have the right approvals and manuals for such work. (one would think, but in the world of SACAA many stranger things have happened...)

There are too many examples to point out here, but some of the typical violators of these "loopholes" are; scenic flight tours, flight training companies, commercial airliners (a lot of pilots post selfies or out of the cockpit window photos), private charters, oh wait... lets just list everyone in manned aviation who at one point in time in their lives have taken photos from inside the aircraft while flying or had a photo taken from inside the aircraft and flying.

Before you bite my head of about the social media thing, go ahead and read the full terms and conditions you accepted when creating ANY social media account. Since no one does, or will, let me paraphrase for you... Though the photos belong to you, the social media company reserves the rights to use your photos to promote their products or services. They also reserve the rights to use that content to improve their products and services. Thus every single individual by way of having a social media account is contributing content that could be used for for "commercial outcome, interest or gain," and does not exempt a charter company.

Even Avcom is littered with this kind of content which would result in "commercial outcome, interest or gain." If you know how google works then you would understand the commercial benefits of posting said content on a site like Avcom.

Even if your accounts are private at some point you connect up with someone, a friend, family or a distant connection who would see a post you made and go... "Hey, I should go for a scenic tour with with (insert your favorite pilots name here) who works for (insert your favorite charter companies name here) and does tours around (insert your favorite destinations name here)." or "Hey, I have to charter a flight and get to (insert your favorite destinations name here), doesn't (insert your favorite pilots name here) work for a company that charters flights?

And that folks is how you get a "commercial outcome, interest or gain" from an innocent photo taken inside of an airplane where the company does not have an approved operating manual for said activities. [-X

Some food for thought on this lovely Thursday...

Looking forward to reading the replies I am anticipating from the usual crowd.... :wink:
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Re: But what about....

Unread post by V5 - LEO » Thu Feb 27, 2020 10:35 am

....not from the usual crowd, but have you considered how many drones daily take flight and snap pics and vids just for fun, as part of the family picknick, or as two new lovers take a stroll in the veld ,or or or - against the few flights taking off that is rather for training, work or same casual stress reliever around the paddock? And to keep it fair, keep it in SA and compare apples with apples. The driving force behind drone vs a/craft is "intent". The intent of drone, RPAS, and the other catagories is commercially inclined, flying in aircraft, not so much, it is either a means of transport or as I said "stress reliever"

...but to answer your actual question - depending on which side of the fence you are, yes the system is broken, yes the system is not fair, yes the system lacks regulators and enforcers and yes, bitching and whining is not going to solve anything, the drone/RPAS/UAF community in SA need to get delegation with a workable solution and regs to the minister to change that, ask the gents on here that tried assisting initially, they can tell you stories about the amicable way, manner and attitude this community displays in standing together, I suppose!??
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Re: But what about....

Unread post by Shepherd » Fri Feb 28, 2020 8:42 pm

V5 - LEO wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 10:35 am
....not from the usual crowd, but have you considered how many drones daily take flight and snap pics and vids just for fun, as part of the family picknick, or as two new lovers take a stroll in the veld ,or or or - against the few flights taking off that is rather for training, work or same casual stress reliever around the paddock? And to keep it fair, keep it in SA and compare apples with apples. The driving force behind drone vs a/craft is "intent". The intent of drone, RPAS, and the other catagories is commercially inclined, flying in aircraft, not so much, it is either a means of transport or as I said "stress reliever"

...but to answer your actual question - depending on which side of the fence you are, yes the system is broken, yes the system is not fair, yes the system lacks regulators and enforcers and yes, bitching and whining is not going to solve anything, the drone/RPAS/UAF community in SA need to get delegation with a workable solution and regs to the minister to change that, ask the gents on here that tried assisting initially, they can tell you stories about the amicable way, manner and attitude this community displays in standing together, I suppose!??
Thanks for your reply Leo, appreciate it very much.

I understand what you mean about the numbers being skewed.

What I dont understand is how control is ever going to be achieved over something that is so easily accessible.

Kind of feeling at this stage that all drones should be sold from limited places and only by people that are certified to sell drones based on the right checks and balances of the "system."

Not sure that is going to happen though.
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