What are cross country hours for IR?

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Mrb13676
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What are cross country hours for IR?

Unread post by Mrb13676 » Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:28 am

Obviously a number of cross country hours are required as part of the training for the PPL(IR). In the US, cross country requires that you fly to an airport >50nm straight line distance from departure.
I was unable to find any clear definition for here. (probably didn't look hard enough).
If I fly FALA-FARG is that considered cross country or not?
Also, how does one log cross country time in the logbook since there is no specific column for that? - simply use the remarks column?

thoughts?
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Re: What are cross country hours for IR?

Unread post by apollo11 » Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:46 pm

If I'm not mistaken the SA xcountry is defined as 20 NM
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Re: What are cross country hours for IR?

Unread post by V5 - LEO » Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:00 pm

....think also need to visit 2 alternate airfields than base?
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Re: What are cross country hours for IR?

Unread post by Segg » Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:04 pm

Extraction from SACAR 61.05.01

(3) The total of 200 hours referred to in subregulation (2), must include—

(a) 100 hours as PIC, or 70 hours as PIC in the case of an applicant who has undergone the integrated training; and

(b) 20(50 if doing the IR) hours of cross-country flight time as PIC, including one flight of not less than 300 NM, in the course of which full-stop landings at not less than two different aerodromes away from base must have been made; and

(c) 5 hours of night flying as PIC, including not less than 10 take-offs and 10 landings by night, and a cross-country flight of at least three legs, each of a minimum length of 50 NM
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Re: What are cross country hours for IR?

Unread post by Mrb13676 » Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:39 pm

Segg wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:04 pm
Extraction from SACAR 61.05.01

(3) The total of 200 hours referred to in subregulation (2), must include—

(a) 100 hours as PIC, or 70 hours as PIC in the case of an applicant who has undergone the integrated training; and

(b) 20(50 if doing the IR) hours of cross-country flight time as PIC, including one flight of not less than 300 NM, in the course of which full-stop landings at not less than two different aerodromes away from base must have been made; and

(c) 5 hours of night flying as PIC, including not less than 10 take-offs and 10 landings by night, and a cross-country flight of at least three legs, each of a minimum length of 50 NM
Thanks all. @Segg thanks for this. It still doesn’t clarify what classes as “normal” cross country. Obviously there is the need for the long cross country but it was whether the short hops
To
Rustenberg class as cross country or not.

Edited because apparently I can’t English today
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Re: What are cross country hours for IR?

Unread post by apollo11 » Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:00 pm

I recall reading it someplace, a xcountry in the SACAA definition is a straight line distance of more than 20 NM and must include at least a touch and go landing to be classified as xcountry flight time for the purpose of a rating and or license.

So in other words if you are applying for a CPL FW you need at least 20 hours of xcountry PIC time defined as more than 20 NM with landing and "planned route using standard navigational procedures" to make up the 20 hours) including the 300 NM xcountry flight.
Last edited by apollo11 on Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What are cross country hours for IR?

Unread post by heisan » Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:12 pm

“cross country flight” when used in connection with the acquisition of flight experience
required for a pilot licence, means a flight between a point of departure and a point of landing
not less than 20 nautical miles apart following a pre-planned route using standard navigation
procedures;
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Re: What are cross country hours for IR?

Unread post by apollo11 » Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:14 pm

Tks Heisen double transmission you keyed your PTT before I did
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Re: What are cross country hours for IR?

Unread post by Mrb13676 » Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:56 pm

Thanks all.
My instructor also just confirmed the 20nm
One presumes you’d need to keep the navlogs and map copies on file?
BTW @heisan - where did you get definition from?


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Re: What are cross country hours for IR?

Unread post by heisan » Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:03 pm

Mrb13676 wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:56 pm
Thanks all.
My instructor also just confirmed the 20nm
One presumes you’d need to keep the navlogs and map copies on file?
BTW @heisan - where did you get definition from?


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Re: What are cross country hours for IR?

Unread post by nrm » Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:39 pm

6.

Phase 5 – LOS and LOE



(a)

All previous training phases must be successfully completed by the student before he or she proceeds with this training phase.



(b)

The objective of this phase is to expose the candidate to practical, real-world scenarios during IFR/IMC operations, from departure to destination; this includes the application of normal and non-normal procedures. During this phase the candidate will also develop a proactive cockpit management culture (as opposed to reactive).



(c)

This phase shall be conducted in an approved FSTD, using LOFT and LOS principles. At least one LOE must be included in the program.



(d)

The LOS training phase shall comprise a minimum of five sectors each of which shall have a minimum sector length of 50 nm. Each sector shall start from a different aerodrome and terminate using a different instrument approach and aerodrome.



(e)

The following listed items shall be used when designing LOS and LOE training sessions for the management of non-normal events –



(1)

Technical (at least 8 of the items listed below shall be included, as applicable) –



(i)

flight instrumentation/displays (EFIS);



(ii)

pitot/static system;



(iii)

electrical system;



(iv)

engine fire or malfunction (partial or full power loss);



(v)

propeller systems;



(vi)

fuel system;



(vii)

hydraulic system;



(viii)

flight control and trim system;



(ix)

anti/de-icing system;



(x)

autopilot/flight director;



(xi)

navigation/communication system;



(xii)

landing gear and brake system;



(xiii)

lift augmentation devices;



(xiv)

air conditioning and pressurisation system;



(xv)

aircraft doors;



(xvi)

cabin smoke or fire.



(2)

Environmental/operational (All items listed below shall be included, as applicable) –



(i)

weather change/deterioration;



(ii)

weather avoidance;



(iii)

in-flight diversion;



(iv)

arrival/departure procedure change;



(v)

ground station navigation/communication/airfield lighting;



(vi)

in-flight icing;



(vii)

low-fuel management;



(viii)

wind shear;



(ix)

EGPWS/TAWS;



(x)

TCAS/ACAS;



(xi)

prioritising multiple events;



(xii)

managing distractions;



(xiii)

recognition of marginal weather conditions.

7.

Phase 6 – Route familiarisation training in aircraft

This phase of the training serves to transition the candidate to IFR operations in the aircraft. It shall comprise at least two sectors, both terminating in an instrument approach.

[TS 61.11.2 previously ts 61.11.1 renumbered by the Director of Civil Aviation w.e.f. 1 July 2016.]
Neville Matthews

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