FALA A-RNP Rwy25

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Andrew Smit
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FALA A-RNP Rwy25

Unread post by Andrew Smit » Sun Jun 05, 2016 4:32 pm

Well done to ATNS on the CAA approval of the Advanced RNP Rwy 25 for Lanseria. This is one of the first A-RNP procedures published in the world. For those who don't know, an A-RNP procedure looks like a RNP-AR (curved RF Leg segment), but doesn't require the complicated RNP-AR approval process. Procedure goes live on the 23 June ARINC cycle change over.
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Re: FALA A-RNP Rwy25

Unread post by Hop Harrigan » Sun Jun 05, 2016 6:58 pm

Hi Andrew,
Very interesting...could you possibly give us a full rundown on the approach, what on-board equipment is required and how it works?
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Re: FALA A-RNP Rwy25

Unread post by tansg » Mon Jun 06, 2016 7:08 am

Andrew Smit wrote:Well done to ATNS on the CAA approval of the Advanced RNP Rwy 25 for Lanseria. This is one of the first A-RNP procedures published in the world. For those who don't know, an A-RNP procedure looks like a RNP-AR (curved RF Leg segment), but doesn't require the complicated RNP-AR approval process. Procedure goes live on the 23 June ARINC cycle change over.
Glad to see my legacy lives on. :)
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Re: FALA A-RNP Rwy25

Unread post by transducer » Mon Jun 06, 2016 10:33 am

Hi Andrew

Further to Hop's reply do you know what aircrew additional training is required, if any? Also what equipment will be required to conduct this approach and if that and the aircraft also need certification? I wonder if the CAA will also require a licence endorsement?

I have done some searching on the web and it seems like the Advanced RNP approach its meant to simplify all the RNP requirements from take off to approach into one all encompassing specification. This approach is not meant to be a replacement of the RNP-AR approach and will be used where terrain challenges are not that complicated. It is apparently also meant to be relatively cheap and uncomplicated to comply with.
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Re: FALA A-RNP Rwy25

Unread post by transducer » Mon Jun 06, 2016 10:41 am

Ah, just found AIC 001/2015 on the subject. It has a lot of gen.
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Re: FALA A-RNP Rwy25

Unread post by Andrew Smit » Mon Jun 06, 2016 11:20 am

Sorry for this crappy reply. But this best way to deal with it

http://www.caa.co.za/Aeronautical%20Inf ... 1-2015.pdf
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Re: FALA A-RNP Rwy25

Unread post by Hop Harrigan » Tue Jun 07, 2016 11:20 am

Hi,
One of the issues that (from my not very knowledgeable view point) seems to permeate everything to do with all GNSS approaches, is the verbosity of the documentation. If you just want to know what the approach looks like and how to fly it you've got to wade through reams of design documentation and technical specs. Compared to an ILS or VOR approach this makes GNSS quite a mystery.
Or is it just me?
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Re: FALA A-RNP Rwy25

Unread post by Andrew Smit » Tue Jun 07, 2016 2:26 pm

It the approval process that is quite lengthy. Once you have achieved achieved this, it becomes like any other approach. It's a bit like CAT 3 ILS approval. There are a lot of aircraft flying around with ILS's installed. Not all of them can autoland in 75m visibility though.
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Re: FALA A-RNP Rwy25

Unread post by Andrew Smit » Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:55 pm

It looks like Jepp received the FALA RNV 25 data too late to code into the 23 June cycle. Will be included in the next cycle.
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Re: FALA A-RNP Rwy25

Unread post by Ari-wan » Sat Aug 27, 2016 2:30 pm

And it looks like it finally made it into this month's Jepp update ... =D>
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Re: FALA A-RNP Rwy25

Unread post by BallsOfFire » Sat Aug 27, 2016 2:47 pm

After going through the CAA document, I am now so lost :(.

Can someone shed some light on this topic, what is needed by the crew and aircraft to comply?

If the crew and aircraft comply with RNAV/GNSS, does this also allow you to fly the RNP?

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Re: FALA A-RNP Rwy25

Unread post by Globemaster » Thu Sep 15, 2016 11:55 pm

BallsOfFire wrote:After going through the CAA document, I am now so lost :(.

Can someone shed some light on this topic, what is needed by the crew and aircraft to comply?

If the crew and aircraft comply with RNAV/GNSS, does this also allow you to fly the RNP?

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Re: FALA A-RNP Rwy25

Unread post by jalopysled » Thu Oct 06, 2016 3:43 pm

Suppose you'll have to speak to the CAA to find that answer... IF you do get an answer, would be great if you could fill us in.
As far as I know though, both aircraft and aircrew need to be approved for RNP approaches.
Reading a thread on PPrune (http://www.pprune.org/tech-log/521577-r ... ments.html) it seems it is pretty confusing. Suppose to add to the confusion is the fact that the various regulatory authorities haven't quite agreed on RNAV/RNP/GNSS/GPS... it's all a bit up in the air. But one thing you could be pretty sure about - both crew and machine will need certification.
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Re: FALA A-RNP Rwy25

Unread post by jalopysled » Thu Oct 06, 2016 3:46 pm

Actually - come to think about it - 43 Advanced offer GNSS training - maybe they can provide some clarity on requirements?
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Re: FALA A-RNP Rwy25

Unread post by Upthere » Fri Oct 07, 2016 12:10 pm

From the regs.

RNAV will be phased out over time and replaced by RNP. The key difference between them is the requirement for on-board performance monitoring and alerting

GNSS is the umbrella term for GPS, GLONASS, etc. adopted by ICAO.

SUBPART 11:
INSTRUMENT RATING

General

61.11.1 (1) Except when receiving flight training, undergoing a skills test or in special VFR operation, no person shall act as pilot of an aircraft in accordance with instrument flight rules (IFR) or in instrument meteorological conditions (IMC) unless that person has a valid instrument rating (IR) appropriate to the aircraft being flown.

(2) An IR may be endorsed with the following—



(a)

single-engine aeroplanes (SEA);



(b)

multi-engine aeroplanes (MEA);



(c)

single- and multi-engine helicopters (H);



(d)

multi-pilot (MP);



(e)

RNP APCH (LNAV); or



(f)

RNP APCH (LNAV/VNAV).

For an A-RNP you need to have SAAAR (aircrew training and aircraft equipment)
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