FAWB RNAV (GNSS) RCF...

RNAV, GNSS, GPSS. Your place to discuss all aspects pertaining to Instrument Flying.

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
stheeman
Mags Dead Cut
Posts: 63
Joined: Sat May 05, 2012 8:41 pm
Closest Airfield: FAGC
Location: Gauteng
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

FAWB RNAV (GNSS) RCF...

Unread post by stheeman » Tue Jul 04, 2017 9:11 pm

Greetings Avcom'rs!

I have a question relating to the RNAV (GNSS) RWY 29 approach plate for Wonderboom where it says, amongst others, that in the event of a "Missed approach communication failure" that one needs to "Comply with the Missed APCH procedure and return UDGIS. At UDGIS maintain 7000FT ALT, continue direct to WB2T1. At WB2T1 contiue direct overhead DPV and enter the racetrack at 7000FT ALT. Hold for 5 minutes and comply with the VOR/DME procedural letdown RWY 29 and land".

Now, reading the NOTAM's, I spot the one that says "WONDERBOOM AP DVOR/DME DPV 112.2 MHZ/CH 59X NOT CALIBRATED. ALL
ASSOCIATED PROC SUSPENDED."

Does this mean, since DPV is required (well, only for the missed approach and RCF case) for the RNAV (GNSS) approach, that the RNAV approach is also suspended?

Your thoughts would be appreciated!
Hendrik.
Only
Power on stall
Posts: 347
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 2:24 pm
Closest Airfield: FALA
Location: Randburg
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Re: FAWB RNAV (GNSS) RCF...

Unread post by Only » Wed Jul 05, 2017 6:04 am

My opinion is NO you can not use it because there is a NOTAM that says it is suspended. But we had the same discussion with regards to FALA and HBV a while back.

Follow the link

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=130038
User avatar
tansg
Rolling
Posts: 171
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2009 8:29 pm
Closest Airfield: OMAA
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 2 times

Re: FAWB RNAV (GNSS) RCF...

Unread post by tansg » Wed Jul 05, 2017 6:21 am

I would be asking ATNS's Flight Procedure Design Department why the dependency on another Nav Aid in this procedure. This is just lazy and tells me not all the options were considered. The protocols of the use RNAV (GNSS) is such to do away with such dependencies. And NO this is not a CAA issue. This a the design service provider issue. The CAA's mandate is to ensure the procedure is safe and complies with the minimum ICAO SARPs and CAA Regs. CAA can only recommend on best practice and it is up to the service provider to decide if they want heed that advice or not. This solution is typical of an inexperienced or lazy designer.

PS I have been an Airspace and Flight Procedure Designer for 21 years (more than 900 procedures designed and published of which 80% odd are RNAV (GNSS)) and was a member of ICAO's Instrument Flight Procedure Panel for 8 years and am presently and advisor to the panel for another 3 years so I think I may just know what I am talking about
User avatar
stheeman
Mags Dead Cut
Posts: 63
Joined: Sat May 05, 2012 8:41 pm
Closest Airfield: FAGC
Location: Gauteng
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Re: FAWB RNAV (GNSS) RCF...

Unread post by stheeman » Wed Jul 05, 2017 7:47 am

Thanks for the feedback so far! Much appreciated.

H.
User avatar
Llamallama
Flight Planning
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2014 3:31 pm
Closest Airfield: Fagc
Location: Midrand
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Re: FAWB RNAV (GNSS) RCF...

Unread post by Llamallama » Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:29 pm

Hi Tsang ,

I find this fascinating especially because in my opinion a lot of people who look at a plate probably have no idea how much time goes into this.

Out of interest, how did you get involved or start out in your career building approaches and get to the point of working with ICAO?

Are you based in South Africa?
tansg wrote:I would be asking ATNS's Flight Procedure Design Department why the dependency on another Nav Aid in this procedure. This is just lazy and tells me not all the options were considered. The protocols of the use RNAV (GNSS) is such to do away with such dependencies. And NO this is not a CAA issue. This a the design service provider issue. The CAA's mandate is to ensure the procedure is safe and complies with the minimum ICAO SARPs and CAA Regs. CAA can only recommend on best practice and it is up to the service provider to decide if they want heed that advice or not. This solution is typical of an inexperienced or lazy designer.

PS I have been an Airspace and Flight Procedure Designer for 21 years (more than 900 procedures designed and published of which 80% odd are RNAV (GNSS)) and was a member of ICAO's Instrument Flight Procedure Panel for 8 years and am presently and advisor to the panel for another 3 years so I think I may just know what I am talking about
User avatar
tansg
Rolling
Posts: 171
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2009 8:29 pm
Closest Airfield: OMAA
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 2 times

Re: FAWB RNAV (GNSS) RCF...

Unread post by tansg » Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:53 am

Llamallama wrote:Hi Tsang ,

I find this fascinating especially because in my opinion a lot of people who look at a plate probably have no idea how much time goes into this.

Out of interest, how did you get involved or start out in your career building approaches and get to the point of working with ICAO?

Are you based in South Africa?
tansg wrote:I would be asking ATNS's Flight Procedure Design Department why the dependency on another Nav Aid in this procedure. This is just lazy and tells me not all the options were considered. The protocols of the use RNAV (GNSS) is such to do away with such dependencies. And NO this is not a CAA issue. This a the design service provider issue. The CAA's mandate is to ensure the procedure is safe and complies with the minimum ICAO SARPs and CAA Regs. CAA can only recommend on best practice and it is up to the service provider to decide if they want heed that advice or not. This solution is typical of an inexperienced or lazy designer.

PS I have been an Airspace and Flight Procedure Designer for 21 years (more than 900 procedures designed and published of which 80% odd are RNAV (GNSS)) and was a member of ICAO's Instrument Flight Procedure Panel for 8 years and am presently and advisor to the panel for another 3 years so I think I may just know what I am talking about
PM sent

Return to “Instrument Flying”