How to request an IF approach?

RNAV, GNSS, GPSS. Your place to discuss all aspects pertaining to Instrument Flying.

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
Hop Harrigan
1k poster
1k poster
Posts: 1012
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 7:55 pm
Has liked: 3 times
Been liked: 19 times

How to request an IF approach?

Unread post by Hop Harrigan » Sun Nov 26, 2017 8:58 am

Hi Guys,
So, on most of my return trips to FALA from the S & E coast, I like to do an IF approach irrespective of the weather to stay current.
I file DCT LAI for the ILS and ‘RQT FALA ILS Z APPROACH’ when submitting my FPL. However despite informing area and again informing radar of the request, I often just get ‘cleared for the right hand visual’ at FALA. By this stage i’m too close to the runway to re-request the IF approach.
So what’s the deal? Comair and Fruitanveg seem to get cleared for their RNAV IF approaches as SOP but I’m left begging every time? Is this just the normal treatment for lesser GA folk or am I doing something wrong?
Hop
There is no gravity...the Earth sucks
User avatar
frikie
HASSELL checks
Posts: 271
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 9:14 am
Location: South Afrfica
Has liked: 8 times
Been liked: 6 times

Re: How to request an IF approach?

Unread post by frikie » Sun Nov 26, 2017 9:59 am

And every time I arrive at FALA with the green machine I request the visual and get cleared for the RNAV approach. :)

When we approach from Cape Town, we arrive on a long finale approach. The approach we do only change the amount of calls we do. From Durban the RNAV routing help to keep is clear from FOAR traffic.
User avatar
Hop Harrigan
1k poster
1k poster
Posts: 1012
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 7:55 pm
Has liked: 3 times
Been liked: 19 times

Re: How to request an IF approach?

Unread post by Hop Harrigan » Sun Nov 26, 2017 5:46 pm

Swap?
There is no gravity...the Earth sucks
User avatar
Hop Harrigan
1k poster
1k poster
Posts: 1012
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 7:55 pm
Has liked: 3 times
Been liked: 19 times

Re: How to request an IF approach?

Unread post by Hop Harrigan » Sun Nov 26, 2017 8:52 pm

Someone from ATC got some advice?
Hop
There is no gravity...the Earth sucks
Swampdonkey
Tree Tousand
Tree Tousand
Posts: 3706
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 1:52 pm
Has liked: 12 times
Been liked: 10 times

Re: How to request an IF approach?

Unread post by Swampdonkey » Sun Nov 26, 2017 9:28 pm

There should be no need to specifically request an IFR approach. ATC can only offer an IFR flight a visual if it is specifically requested by the pilot using the phraseology "field (or runway) in sight, request a visual approach". The IFR approach should be the default when on an IFR plan. I can only imagine that at some point you may have reported the "field in sight" and this would have prompted the ATC to clear you for the visual approach.
"Excuse me while I kiss the sky!" ---Jimi---1967-
User avatar
Hop Harrigan
1k poster
1k poster
Posts: 1012
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 7:55 pm
Has liked: 3 times
Been liked: 19 times

Re: How to request an IF approach?

Unread post by Hop Harrigan » Sun Nov 26, 2017 10:07 pm

Hi SD,
That was my opinion as well...certainly never reported ‘field in sight’.
Hop
There is no gravity...the Earth sucks
User avatar
Jayson v Schalkwyk
Too Tousand
Too Tousand
Posts: 2022
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2005 11:02 am
Closest Airfield: Himeville
Location: Between A and B
Has liked: 3 times
Been liked: 14 times

Re: How to request an IF approach?

Unread post by Jayson v Schalkwyk » Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:53 pm

Hop Harrigan wrote:Hi Guys,
So, on most of my return trips to FALA from the S & E coast, I like to do an IF approach irrespective of the weather to stay current.
I file DCT LAI for the ILS and ‘RQT FALA ILS Z APPROACH’ when submitting my FPL. However despite informing area and again informing radar of the request, I often just get ‘cleared for the right hand visual’ at FALA. By this stage i’m too close to the runway to re-request the IF approach.
So what’s the deal? Comair and Fruitanveg seem to get cleared for their RNAV IF approaches as SOP but I’m left begging every time? Is this just the normal treatment for lesser GA folk or am I doing something wrong?
Hop
Hop, was the whole flight plan filed IFR or did you possibly do a VFR/IFR change enroute? As was mentioned, you should not need to be specifically requesting an approach in the flight plan.
Jayson van Schalkwyk

A pilot's professionalism is judged by how he flies when nobody is looking
Romeo E.T.
8000 Tousand
8000 Tousand
Posts: 8809
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 10:49 pm
Closest Airfield: FAJS
Location: JHB INTL/Kpt Park/Rand Apt
Has liked: 23 times
Been liked: 120 times

Re: How to request an IF approach?

Unread post by Romeo E.T. » Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:30 pm

Jayson v Schalkwyk wrote:
Hop Harrigan wrote:Hi Guys,
So, on most of my return trips to FALA from the S & E coast, I like to do an IF approach irrespective of the weather to stay current.
I file DCT LAI for the ILS and ‘RQT FALA ILS Z APPROACH’ when submitting my FPL. However despite informing area and again informing radar of the request, I often just get ‘cleared for the right hand visual’ at FALA. By this stage i’m too close to the runway to re-request the IF approach.
So what’s the deal? Comair and Fruitanveg seem to get cleared for their RNAV IF approaches as SOP but I’m left begging every time? Is this just the normal treatment for lesser GA folk or am I doing something wrong?
Hop
Hop, was the whole flight plan filed IFR or did you possibly do a VFR/IFR change enroute? As was mentioned, you should not need to be specifically requesting an approach in the flight plan.
my thoughts too

If on an IF flight plan, ATC can only offer the visual approach, in the interest of traffic flow management, but you have to accept the offer.

If you don't accept the offer of a visual approach, due to traffic flow management, you might have to accept the inneviatble delay of holding somewhere...but at least you will get your desired approach at then end of it all.
sometimes we suffer a bit from C.R.A.F.T. sickness..Can't Remember A F@#%ing Thing

https://www.facebook.com/ralf.t.schulz
User avatar
ppakotze
Frequent AvComer
Posts: 947
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2008 1:50 pm
Closest Airfield: Fly from FARS
Location: SA
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 1 time

Re: How to request an IF approach?

Unread post by ppakotze » Tue Nov 28, 2017 7:00 am

In my opinion there could be two reasons for giving you the visual:

ATC probably don't want you flying the full IF approach if you are in front of their faster traffic. So if you really want it ask for it early so they can plan and possibly slot you in or hold you until able to fit you in.

Most operators would want the visual if they are allowed it because it saves time and fuel.

Regards
P.
User avatar
Hop Harrigan
1k poster
1k poster
Posts: 1012
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 7:55 pm
Has liked: 3 times
Been liked: 19 times

Re: How to request an IF approach?

Unread post by Hop Harrigan » Fri Dec 01, 2017 1:41 pm

Hi,
The flight in question was:
IF takeoff to landing, ‘I’ on FPL
Filed ...DCT GAV DCT LAI DCT FALA (note filed to the Lanseria ILS)
RMK RQT FALA ILS Z APPROACH
FPL was accepted and a ref issued.
I did not request a visual app nor call field in sight...was summarily instructed ‘contact Lanseria 124 zero ... good day’
Hop
There is no gravity...the Earth sucks
User avatar
RAPCON
Steep Turn Left
Posts: 305
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 9:09 am
Closest Airfield: Eros
Location: Namibia
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Re: How to request an IF approach?

Unread post by RAPCON » Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:41 am

From SACAA Standards and Procedures Manual

6.1.2 Visual Approach
a) To expedite traffic IFR flights may be cleared to execute visual approaches, whilst still maintaining IFR Flight Plan status, when:
i. The pilot can maintain visual reference to the terrain; and
ii. The reported cloud ceiling is above the initial approach altitude;
OR
The pilot reports at the Initial approach level or at any time during instrument approach procedure that the meteorological conditions are such that with reasonable assurance a visual approach and landing can be completed; and
iii. The aircraft is within 25NM of the destination aerodrome;
iv. A Visual Approach may be requested by the pilot or initiated by an ATC. When initiated by the ATC the concurrence of the pilot is required.
v) The reported ceiling is at or above the level of the beginning of the
initial approach segment for the aircraft so cleared; or
vi) The pilot reports at the level of the beginning of the initial approach segment or at any time during the instrument approach procedure that the meteorological conditions are such that with reasonable assurance a visual approach and landing can be completed.

Goes on to say;
Note 1: The term visual approach is only associated with an instrument approach procedure, where the Instrument Approach is abbreviated in total or in part.
Note 3: When an aircraft is receiving vectors, a clearance for a visual approach shall only be issued when a pilot reports the aerodrome in sight OR the preceding aircraft in sight, at which time the vectoring/control will be terminated; however the aircraft will still be provided with an ATS surveillance service.

So sure, you can deny the visual approach and complete the 'full' IF approach, but you will most likely be delaying someone somewhere. In most cases the visual approach is offered by ATC to expedite traffic.
Landmines are equal opportunity weapons.
User avatar
Hop Harrigan
1k poster
1k poster
Posts: 1012
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 7:55 pm
Has liked: 3 times
Been liked: 19 times

Re: How to request an IF approach?

Unread post by Hop Harrigan » Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:48 pm

Hi Rapcon,
From that info (thanks for digging it up) it sure sounds like the poor GA cousin is open to getting shunted out of an IF approach whereas the airlines seem to get the clear run into the ILS without asking.
And then we tut-tut over the GA pilots who battle to stay IF current as though they are somehow negligent.
Sad
Hop
There is no gravity...the Earth sucks

Return to “Instrument Flying”