What does an ATPL(H) do?...

Rotary Wing, Rotor Craft and Helicopter discussions.

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
Fransw
Fower Tousand
Fower Tousand
Posts: 4961
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2015 3:22 pm
Closest Airfield: Pretoria
Location: Pretoria
Has liked: 136 times
Been liked: 49 times

What does an ATPL(H) do?...

Unread post by Fransw » Fri May 03, 2019 6:47 pm

.....and how is it different from the CPL(H)?

Muchas gracias! :D
User avatar
Jack Welles
Tree Tousand
Tree Tousand
Posts: 3292
Joined: Mon Dec 02, 2013 1:15 pm
Closest Airfield: FACT
Location: Muizenberg
Has liked: 13 times
Been liked: 107 times

Re: What does an ATPL(H) do?...

Unread post by Jack Welles » Fri May 03, 2019 7:17 pm

In my simplistic (small helo) view there was never much to be gained by more theory beyond the CPL. For most helo flying (eg, slinging, hems, winching, ag, game, tracking, fire bombing, etc etc) it's more about seat-of-the-pants stick-and-rudder flying, and practical hands-on experience doing just that, than it is about theory. very different to f/w.

Maybe once you start long distance a->b flying then the nav etc stuff could become more important.
These users liked the author Jack Welles for the post:
Fransw
Jack Welles (thriller_author pen name)
https://www.amazon.com/Jack-Welles/e/B073VJQTTX
Eddie Haynes-Smart
Textbook - "The Lore of Negotiation"
http://www.loreofnegotiation.com
User avatar
Fransw
Fower Tousand
Fower Tousand
Posts: 4961
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2015 3:22 pm
Closest Airfield: Pretoria
Location: Pretoria
Has liked: 136 times
Been liked: 49 times

Re: What does an ATPL(H) do?...

Unread post by Fransw » Fri May 03, 2019 7:22 pm

Jack Welles wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 7:17 pm
In my simplistic (small helo) view there was never much to be gained by more theory beyond the CPL. For most helo flying (eg, slinging, hems, winching, ag, game, tracking, fire bombing, etc etc) it's more about seat-of-the-pants stick-and-rudder flying, and practical hands-on experience doing just that, than it is about theory. very different to f/w.

Maybe once you start long distance a->b flying then the nav etc stuff could become more important.
Thanks!

But for certain jobs one must be an Altp!? For example the pilot flying choppers for Air Mauritius?...or not..
helicopter-ride-air-mauritius-jess-gibson-the-travelista-blog.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
User avatar
Jack Welles
Tree Tousand
Tree Tousand
Posts: 3292
Joined: Mon Dec 02, 2013 1:15 pm
Closest Airfield: FACT
Location: Muizenberg
Has liked: 13 times
Been liked: 107 times

Re: What does an ATPL(H) do?...

Unread post by Jack Welles » Fri May 03, 2019 7:24 pm

What sort of flying to do they do?
Jack Welles (thriller_author pen name)
https://www.amazon.com/Jack-Welles/e/B073VJQTTX
Eddie Haynes-Smart
Textbook - "The Lore of Negotiation"
http://www.loreofnegotiation.com
User avatar
Fransw
Fower Tousand
Fower Tousand
Posts: 4961
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2015 3:22 pm
Closest Airfield: Pretoria
Location: Pretoria
Has liked: 136 times
Been liked: 49 times

Re: What does an ATPL(H) do?...

Unread post by Fransw » Fri May 03, 2019 7:34 pm

Jack Welles wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 7:24 pm
What sort of flying to do they do?
Normal cpl work I think. Transport guests from airport to hotels. Max about 100km. Also normal scenic tours.. But they are working for an airline.
Romeo E.T.
8000 Tousand
8000 Tousand
Posts: 8760
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 10:49 pm
Closest Airfield: FAJS
Location: JHB INTL/Kpt Park/Rand Apt
Has liked: 20 times
Been liked: 94 times

Re: What does an ATPL(H) do?...

Unread post by Romeo E.T. » Fri May 03, 2019 9:30 pm

would the ATPL (H) not be an absolute requirement to be the P1 on the bigger/heavier machines that are operated 2 crew
These users liked the author Romeo E.T. for the post:
Fransw
sometimes we suffer a bit from C.R.A.F.T. sickness..Can't Remember A F@#%ing Thing

https://www.facebook.com/ralf.t.schulz
User avatar
ACE MAN
Tree Tousand
Tree Tousand
Posts: 3850
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 7:53 am
Closest Airfield: FAKT+VHHH+FAPX
Location: iKhaya mina 22N114E
Has liked: 239 times
Been liked: 42 times

Re: What does an ATPL(H) do?...

Unread post by ACE MAN » Fri May 03, 2019 10:43 pm

Romeo E.T. wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 9:30 pm
would the ATPL (H) not be an absolute requirement to be the P1 on the bigger/heavier machines that are operated 2 crew
Agreed, would be for Bell412/MI8 and bigger stuff I would think based on weight and multicrew ops?
These users liked the author ACE MAN for the post:
Fransw
IITYWTMWYBMAD
Nomakhanjani
¯¯VAF¯¯
Bront
Mags Dead Cut
Posts: 60
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2014 1:47 pm
Closest Airfield: fact
Location: cpt
Has liked: 1 time
Been liked: 6 times

Re: What does an ATPL(H) do?...

Unread post by Bront » Sat May 04, 2019 6:10 am

No, not the Air Mauritius pilot. As far as I can remember it is all about weight. P1 on Helicopters over 5400kg max take off weight operated for RPT must be ATPL. I'm not a 100% sure but I think you can get away with a com if it's classed as airwork.
These users liked the author Bront for the post:
Fransw
User avatar
Fransw
Fower Tousand
Fower Tousand
Posts: 4961
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2015 3:22 pm
Closest Airfield: Pretoria
Location: Pretoria
Has liked: 136 times
Been liked: 49 times

Re: What does an ATPL(H) do?...

Unread post by Fransw » Sat May 04, 2019 1:11 pm

So is it save to say you need an Atpl(h) for multi crew above a certain weight and transporting pax?...
Draadkardrywer
Aircraft in Hangar
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2011 10:08 am
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 1 time

Re: What does an ATPL(H) do?...

Unread post by Draadkardrywer » Sat May 04, 2019 1:27 pm

ATPL(H) is mostly a requirement for Captains operating in the Offshore Helicopter service, operating on the bigger multi-engine, multi-crew, IFR type helicopters, like Sikorsky S-61, S-76, S-92, AW-139, Bell 412, EC 225, etc.
In a lot of ways, these operations are similar to airline type operations, for instance: IFR procedures, multi-crew procedures, procedural type flying on fixed routes and altitudes, etc.
Other operations that may also require ATPL(H), normally also on ME/IFR helicopters, includes VIP and Medical Rescue all weather type operations.
These users liked the author Draadkardrywer for the post:
Fransw
User avatar
Fransw
Fower Tousand
Fower Tousand
Posts: 4961
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2015 3:22 pm
Closest Airfield: Pretoria
Location: Pretoria
Has liked: 136 times
Been liked: 49 times

Re: What does an ATPL(H) do?...

Unread post by Fransw » Sat May 04, 2019 2:18 pm

Draadkardrywer wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 1:27 pm
ATPL(H) is mostly a requirement for Captains operating in the Offshore Helicopter service, operating on the bigger multi-engine, multi-crew, IFR type helicopters, like Sikorsky S-61, S-76, S-92, AW-139, Bell 412, EC 225, etc.
In a lot of ways, these operations are similar to airline type operations, for instance: IFR procedures, multi-crew procedures, procedural type flying on fixed routes and altitudes, etc.
Other operations that may also require ATPL(H), normally also on ME/IFR helicopters, includes VIP and Medical Rescue all weather type operations.
Thanks Draadkar! So it has nothing to do with carrying pax with a heavy weight multi crew chopper? For example patrolling(no pax) in one of those heavy weight multi crew machines one also needs an Atpl(h) license?...
Draadkardrywer
Aircraft in Hangar
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2011 10:08 am
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 1 time

Re: What does an ATPL(H) do?...

Unread post by Draadkardrywer » Sat May 04, 2019 4:22 pm

Fransw wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 2:18 pm
Draadkardrywer wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 1:27 pm
ATPL(H) is mostly a requirement for Captains operating in the Offshore Helicopter service, operating on the bigger multi-engine, multi-crew, IFR type helicopters, like Sikorsky S-61, S-76, S-92, AW-139, Bell 412, EC 225, etc.
In a lot of ways, these operations are similar to airline type operations, for instance: IFR procedures, multi-crew procedures, procedural type flying on fixed routes and altitudes, etc.
Other operations that may also require ATPL(H), normally also on ME/IFR helicopters, includes VIP and Medical Rescue all weather type operations.
Thanks Draadkar! So it has nothing to do with carrying pax with a heavy weight multi crew chopper? For example patrolling(no pax) in one of those heavy weight multi crew machines one also needs an Atpl(h) license?...
The Offshore Helicopter Pilot ATP(H) requirement is mostly driven by the IOGP (International Association of Oil & Gas Producers) minimum requirements for pilots and therefor enforced by the helicopter operators.

Disclaimer: The following information was found on SACAA website, I do not take responsibility for correctness, completeness or any other legal jargon associated with this information. [-(

Moving into the gray area of the law please check on www.caa.co.za :

SA-CATS 127
Commercial Helicopter Operations: Passengers, Cargo and Mail

Part 127.02.1 COMPOSITION OF FLIGHT CREW

Part 127.02.1(6) Minimum experience for assignment

"(3) No person shall act as the PIC of a passenger-carrying helicopter operated in terms of this Part with a maximum certified take off mass of greater than 2730 kg or a maximum certified seating configuration of 10 or more passengers unless:

(a) in the case of IFR flight, the person has acquired at least 1 200 hours of flight time as a pilot; and

(b) in the case of day or night VFR, the person has acquired not less than 500 hours of flight time as a pilot."

:smt119 :smt120 :smt101 :smt103

Yes I have also noted, no mention of which licence is required??????
User avatar
Captain Kirk
Straight and Level
Posts: 246
Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 3:09 pm
Closest Airfield: FAGC
Location: Final approach for the Rig...
Has liked: 13 times
Been liked: 2 times

Re: What does an ATPL(H) do?...

Unread post by Captain Kirk » Sat May 04, 2019 4:41 pm

I believe the magic number is 5700kgs.

To fly any type from 5700kgs and upwards, for the purpose of Commercial Air Transport, the PIC has to be an ATPL(H) holder, anything 5700kgs and below, the PIC may have a CPL(H), however it also depends what the Customer/Contract/Insurance requirements are, these may stipulate that the Captain is required to hold an ATPL(H) even on something like a Bell 412ep which has an MTOW of 5400kgs and could be commanded by a CPL holder in Commercial Air Transport.

As posted above the ATPL requirement is usually enforced in an environment like; Offshore/Humanitarian Aid (UN)/IFR/Multi-crew.
Fransw wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 2:18 pm
Thanks Draadkar! So it has nothing to do with carrying pax with a heavy weight multi crew chopper? For example patrolling(no pax) in one of those heavy weight multi crew machines one also needs an Atpl(h) license?...
I guess law enforcement / military is different, not all countries have their law enforcement aircraft on the civilian register like we do... that might negate the requirement for a civilian ATPL.

Makes you wonder then if you have a PPL and an extremely healthy bank balance, would you be able to fly your own Agusta 139 (6400kgs MTOW in basic config) as PIC in a Part 91 environment? 8-[

A personal observation, when I first started out as a CPL, the only guys (& gals) doing the ATPL(H) were those hoping to fly Offshore or IFR, from what I've seen in recent years though, while sitting on vehicle tracking shifts or while out seeking employment, many fresh CPL's go do the ATPL exams and get them out of the way, it's become the new standard, albeit purely academic at that stage of your career.

Admittedly I was one of the guys who didn't do the ATPL theory when I had the time on my quiet vehicle tracking shifts and it caught up with me down the line... :oops:

My personal opinion is that if you plan on working as a pilot, it is worth doing the ATPL ( even if it's the VFR ATPL(H) ) because at some point you should surpass the 1500hr mark (other requirements aside) and if for nothing else other than personal pride, why not strive to get the highest licence possible?
These users liked the author Captain Kirk for the post (total 2):
Franswcsparksfly
Chris K.

Return to “Rotor Wing”