Eurocopter Tiger ARH ? Rooivalk ?

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skytrooper
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Eurocopter Tiger ARH ? Rooivalk ?

Unread post by skytrooper » Wed May 29, 2019 9:28 am

I see Australia is using the eurocopter Tiger ARH, looks eerily similar to the rooivalk, is there any relation ?

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Re: Eurocopter Tiger ARH ? Rooivalk ?

Unread post by mamba » Wed May 29, 2019 9:39 am

Engineers often converge on similar solutions to the same problem. There is no correlation between the Helicopters.
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Re: Eurocopter Tiger ARH ? Rooivalk ?

Unread post by Whirly » Wed May 29, 2019 9:40 am

mamba wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 9:39 am
Engineers often converge on similar solutions to the same problem. There is no correlation between the Helicopters.
Except that they both use French components? :?

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Re: Eurocopter Tiger ARH ? Rooivalk ?

Unread post by Deanw » Wed May 29, 2019 11:05 am

Different class of helicopter with different design requirements, so you cannot compare them directly.

The Airbus Tiger is a medium-weight (6 ton) attack helicopter that was not true multi-role as each partner (until recently) had different weapon requirements, whilst the Rooivalk is a heavy multi-role helicopter in the 9-10 ton class (same as Apache).
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Re: Eurocopter Tiger ARH ? Rooivalk ?

Unread post by skytrooper » Wed May 29, 2019 11:49 am

Sure each aircraft made to forfill specific roles i can understand that, however it looks eerily similar in design though, one cannot help but to think somewhere at some time, the schematics/blue prints some ideas had been shared albeit possibly altered to suit different requirements.

I just can't get my head around it being simply pure coincidence.
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Re: Eurocopter Tiger ARH ? Rooivalk ?

Unread post by Ugly Duckling » Wed May 29, 2019 11:55 am

Very similar. Need to look at the IPC :lol:
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Re: Eurocopter Tiger ARH ? Rooivalk ?

Unread post by Deanw » Wed May 29, 2019 9:00 pm

Apart both being tandem, twin engine single rotor attack helicopters, I'm not sure that they really share any detail design characteristics that can be deemed similar.

They look like every other tandem single rotor attack helicopter out there!

That's like saying a Boeing 777 and the Airbus A330 look similar (both being twin isle, twin engine passenger aircraft), so they have shared the same design team in some distant past.
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Re: Eurocopter Tiger ARH ? Rooivalk ?

Unread post by Ugly Duckling » Wed May 29, 2019 9:58 pm

Andre le Croix the electrical system designer was from Aerospatial. There was a lot of cross pollination from France to SA during the sanctions.
I was designed the lead acid batteries for Puma, Alou, Mirage F1, Mirage III, Cheetah C and the Rooivalk Battery Ground Power Unit, I spent many days at Atlas.
Perigrine will be able to give more insight into the project.
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Re: Eurocopter Tiger ARH ? Rooivalk ?

Unread post by skytrooper » Sun Jun 02, 2019 7:50 pm

Interesting indeed. as suspected.
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Re: Eurocopter Tiger ARH ? Rooivalk ?

Unread post by Darren » Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:19 am

South Africa imported a lot of foreign talent in the 1980s to work on Rooivalk, Carver, and other projects. Most came from France and from Israel, the latter after IAI cancelled the Lavi and made a bunch of its staff redundant.

That being said, there was never any direct connection between the Rooivalk and Tiger, they just both followed the design trends and state-of-the-art concepts at the time (especially within the European aviation industry) and fulfilled similar missions, albeit as Dean said with one focusing on the light attack/reconnaissance mission and the other at the heavy anti-tank weapons platform mission.

France was perfectly willing to co-operate with South Africa unofficially, in breach of sanctions, via various third parties. Hence the Oryx programme being able to import Super Puma engines and dynamic components from France via Portugal.

That's also why the Rooivalk is the size and shape that it is. South Africa at the time still didn't have the ability yet to design, test, build and qualify its own helicopter engines and the full set of dynamic components without expensive new investment, so it was decided to use the same Super Puma dynamic components that were being brought in with the Oryx programme. That necessitated a certain size and layout.

Because of that relationship French companies were well placed to win orders when the production Rooivalk configuration was finalised. The main sight, for instance, is the 'NightOwl' from Société de Fabrication d'Instruments de Mesure (SFIM), later part of SAGEM, which is virtually identical to the STRIX sight on the Tiger aside from the addition of a local laser designator from the then-Eloptro.
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Re: Eurocopter Tiger ARH ? Rooivalk ?

Unread post by chaos505 » Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:14 pm

It’s a very common design used.
turkey, China and Japan have similar designs. Some not so pronounced
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Re: Eurocopter Tiger ARH ? Rooivalk ?

Unread post by skytrooper » Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:04 am

ok you guys convinced me.
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Re: Eurocopter Tiger ARH ? Rooivalk ?

Unread post by Andreb » Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:26 am

Most of the design team were poms that worked in Israel and came over to SA when the project there came to an end however the design leads were from Italy, Israel and France. The French were mainly responsible for the engine and gearbox installation. We were a handful of local guys that worked with them to learn how to design aircraft. After the Rooivalk most of the Saffers ended up at Boeing and Aerosud
Our design brief was to built a fit for purposed attach helicopter using the Puma/Orix as a basis

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