Rudi's RV10 Build: RV ZULU-X

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RudiGreyling
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H-Stab is done onto the Elevators

Unread post by RudiGreyling » Mon Aug 24, 2009 12:07 pm

Good Monday RVators,

Well I passed the 100hour mark And I completed riveting the H-stab.
Image

Next in the process is to build the elevators. The RV10 has 2 split elevators Left and Right and BOTH has individual trim tabs associated to them. Compared to the rest of the tail, it is a fairly complicated and intricate structure with lots of small detail.

Here are the Elevator Skeleton components:
Image

The elevator tips extend forward and also act as counterbalance to the weight of the main elevator control surface.
Image

The four elevator skins out the box as supplied, all the cutting and match holes already punched. You just need to debur and smooth the edges.
Image

And bend the outboard ‘trim tab’ position flap to close to up the thin part of the elevator. A simple G clamp and a piece of wood on the edge of a bench with a slight radius.
Image

Finish it of with a hand seamer, then do it to all 4 elevator skins.
Image

Then you clecko the whole skeleton to elevator bottom skin x 2 Left and Right.
Image

This week I have to put the elevator top skin on this structure and match drill ‘to final size’ all the holes, then take it apart and clean and prepare it for riveting.

We have EAA Bethlehem convention this week, so don’t expect too much progress next week.

Till Next Time,
Regards
Rudi
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Re: Rudi's RV10 Build

Unread post by minivan » Mon Aug 24, 2009 3:56 pm

Hi Rudi

Thanks for your pm - will call you - running my butt off this side though.

At this rate you are working yourself out of work - or need to order the next part of the kit in the nearby future.

I missed the "Tool tip" section, but have been watching some of the videos you refered to in earlier post - Whao - there seems to be lots to learn before one even start building.

Happy building and Flying

Pierre
Like all great things achieved in life .... Little inspiration and a lot of perspiration... therefore "Carpe Diem"!!!
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Re: Rudi's RV10 Build

Unread post by grostek » Tue Aug 25, 2009 7:03 am

Hi Rudi,

Lovely the way the kit is prepared, still it is a lot of work to prepare the skins and components before any actual riviting can happen.

Just as an aside what are your steps for the painting/corrosion protection and what products do you use for this.

Kind regards,

Gunter Rostek
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Re: Rudi's RV10 Build

Unread post by RudiGreyling » Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:22 am

minivan wrote:Hi Rudi

Thanks for your pm - will call you - running my butt off this side though.

At this rate you are working yourself out of work - or need to order the next part of the kit in the nearby future.

I missed the "Tool tip" section, but have been watching some of the videos you refered to in earlier post - Whao - there seems to be lots to learn before one even start building.

Happy building and Flying

Pierre
Pierre, my pleasure, phone me when you want more info, it is easier than PM. With the RAND so strong over the past weeks I had many enquiries, and helped a lot of people.

Re: Next kits..The next portion of the kits have been ordered long time ago. This time I am going Quick Build, and the lead time is long. I will also get the kits out of order, the finishing kit has shipped and will be here in 2 Months. The Quickbuild Wings and Fuse have shipped from the Assembly factory back to Vans and they expect only to ship it to me in 1 Months time + another 2 Months on the water. At least when I get the finishing kit I can start to assemble wheels, and build and prepare ods and ends till the wings and fuse arrive.

The Tooltip was contained inside the post. Will make seperate mention of it next time again, but those EAA videos are great. All you need to learn is someone to show you how to build the VANS TOOLBOX project. Vans sells it and it is ideal to get you set up right from the start!

Regards
Rudi
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Re: Rudi's RV10 Build

Unread post by RudiGreyling » Tue Aug 25, 2009 9:09 am

grostek wrote:Hi Rudi,

Lovely the way the kit is prepared, still it is a lot of work to prepare the skins and components before any actual riviting can happen.

Just as an aside what are your steps for the painting/corrosion protection and what products do you use for this.

Kind regards,

Gunter Rostek
Hi Gunter,

RE: Kit preparation
Yes you still need to do a bit. In the USA EAA world you as builder need to complete 51% of the the work (The biggest portion) to qualify for Amatuer owner builder and the benefits associated with it. The standard RV kits (NOT the RV12) are aimed for that category. There is doubt if the RV12 will get the 51% approved since it is much easier to assemly because there is no Match Drilling, hole deburring, countersinking or dimpling for flush rivets. But the RV12 has other benefits if assembled EXACTLY like the Vans model. That said, traditional RV matched prepunched hole kits are a huge step forward and a time saver compared to non matched hole kits. They also ussually fetch a higher price becuase the quality and integrity of the airframe is almost ensured and they are ussualy very straight. (No marking of rivet lines, drilling in the wrong spot, too little metal to support the rivets, and no jigs required.) I take my hat of to someone who can build a NICE looking non-matched hole plane, and even better a 'scratch build plans' metal plane. I takes a special person and dedication to do that!

RE: Primer
Corrosion protection debates is like starting world war 3. Remeber VANS kits is 2024 ALCLAD. The ALCAD is a pure 1/1000 of inch pure aluminium coating that is almost corrosion proof. But if you scratch it the 2024 material alloy WILL CORODE, cause the alloy has iron in it. The non alclad and Metal part you ALWAYS have to primer!

Priming is a time consuming task, so it needs carefull consideration...

I'll give you 2 extremes and you decide where you fit in.
1) If you live in a desert, far from the coast, and have your plane hangared, you wont have to do a single thing to the alclad parts and the airframe will last a 100 years! (The rubbers and plastic will deteriote before the airframe detoriates!)

2) If you live on the coast, and leave your airplane outside all the time in the wind and the weather, I estimate you will be lucky to get 10 years out of your Alcad Airplane without primer before it is scrapped or need mayor repairs.

My Airplanes live in Gauteng and is hangared, but it will go to the coast occastionally. I want a 30 year lifespan expectancy from them.
So I primer at least the mating surfaces where ever 2 Alcad surfaces touch. My theory is that 2 metal surfaces with moisture (salt, accid rain, other chemicals) inbetween them forms a nice battery that gets electrochemical corrosion started and going quickly. Corrosion on a flat piece Alcad will take much longer. So I primer at least 1 of the 2 mating surfaces, insolate the battery effect. (Sometimes I primer the whole part, ribs and thin spars for instancesince, since it is easier to paint the whole thing then to try and mask only the mating surface.)

On my RV7 I used Plascon AW255: EPIWASH STRONTIUM CHROMATE PRIMER a 2 part EPOXY primer (See attached Datasheet) It is THE BEST PRIMER you can find, it has a MIL SPEC coding and DO NOT need to be TOP COATED to form excellent protection against corrosion. It is available at any good plascon paint supply store. The CONS is it is heavy and difficuly to apply since it is tradition compressor and spray gear and you have to clean it all up afterwards.

On my RV10 (Remember I am going quickbuild route) the Vans Quickbuild factor spray the kit with a water based primer that is not as good as EPOXY primer. There is also doubts if they spray individual ALCAD parts prior to assembly, but they definitily run everything over with it prior to skinning it. So my RV10 Quickbuild is already at a dissadvantage compared to my RV7 that is from a parts build. So this time I have resorted to using AVIATION rattle spray can primers sold by avation stores: Any of these products will do the job. http://www.skygeek.com/zinc-chromate.html I ordered a box of 24 cans when I ordered my kit and had it deliverd to VANS to Ship to me inside my crate. I still only do the mating surfaces of any alcad material. Non Alclad parts get full treatment. Spray Cans are easy, fast and convenient to use for mating surfaces, and no clean up required.

Oh and remember to scuff the parts with scotch brite just enough to remove the shine and to form a key for the primer to adhere to, and remember to wash/degrease the part prior to priming it to ensure it sticks good.

IF ANYONE FIND A SOUTH AFRICAN SOURCE FOR AVIATION SPRAY CAN PRIMER LET ME KNOW ASAP!
I get many enquiries and don't know where to send the guys.

Lastly if you live at the coast and want your airplane to last for ever. Then you need to acid wash the parts, alodine the parts, wash it and then epoxy primer everything. It will take a lot of time and will add +/- 10kg of weight to your airplane. But people still do it.

Kind Regards
Rudi
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Last edited by RudiGreyling on Wed Aug 26, 2009 8:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Rudi's RV10 Build

Unread post by grostek » Tue Aug 25, 2009 3:25 pm

Hi Rudi,

Thank you for the very detailed reply.

Have a good week and have fun at the EAA bash.

Kind regards,

Gunter Rostek.
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Re: Rudi's RV10 Build

Unread post by RudiGreyling » Tue Aug 25, 2009 3:41 pm

grostek wrote:Hi Rudi,

Thank you for the very detailed reply.

Have a good week and have fun at the EAA bash.

Kind regards,

Gunter Rostek.
My Pleasure, but this is the first and last time I will discuss priming, in future I will reference all to the post above :mrgreen: hence I wanted to ensure it is detailed enough. Groete, Rudi
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Re: Rudi's RV10 Build

Unread post by minivan » Tue Aug 25, 2009 7:38 pm

Hi Rudi

Quickbuilds - agge-nee!!!!! [-X [-X Daar gaan meer as helfte van die bou proses en die Monday Morning Special Event lees!!!

Kan verstaan hoekom jy so gretig is om die een ook klaar te he - All work and little fly makes Johnny a dull boy ; :D

Ch eerio

Pierre
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Re: Rudi's RV10 Build

Unread post by DDO » Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:42 pm

"IF ANYONE FIND A SOUTH AFRICAN SOURCE FOR AVIATION SPRAY CAN PRIMER LET ME KNOW ASAP!
I get many enquiries and don't know where to send the guys."

Hi Rudi,

I am working hard on this challange .

Thank you once again for the free building lecture.

I wish I could see how you get to the back of the last few rivets!

My tools will be arriving this week, and my RV-7 empennage next week.

Groete

Johan
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Re: Rudi's RV10 Build

Unread post by RudiGreyling » Wed Aug 26, 2009 8:11 am

minivan wrote:Hi Rudi

Quickbuilds - agge-nee!!!!! [-X [-X Daar gaan meer as helfte van die bou proses en die Monday Morning Special Event lees!!!

Kan verstaan hoekom jy so gretig is om die een ook klaar te he - All work and little fly makes Johnny a dull boy ; :D

Ch eerio

Pierre
Hi Pierre,
I have done a RV7 from parts, so you can say "Done it got the T-Shirt" And I still have it to go Fly and Play.

I believe the Quickbuilds are very good value for money, if you take time vs money into consideration.
My RV10 intends to be a work-horse (a light IFR Cruiser), not a show plane.
The RV10 is also a MUCH bigger plane so it take MUCH more work and MUCH more time to complete components.
My wife put pressure to get it done so that we can take the little one along on our trips.

So a Quickbuild makes sense for me on all accounts. (except the bank account :mrgreen:)

Regards,
Rudi
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Re: Rudi's RV10 Build

Unread post by RudiGreyling » Wed Aug 26, 2009 8:16 am

DDO wrote:"IF ANYONE FIND A SOUTH AFRICAN SOURCE FOR AVIATION SPRAY CAN PRIMER LET ME KNOW ASAP!
I get many enquiries and don't know where to send the guys."

Hi Rudi,

I am working hard on this challange .
Thank you once again for the free building lecture.
I wish I could see how you get to the back of the last few rivets!
My tools will be arriving this week, and my RV-7 empennage next week.
Groete

Johan
Hi Johan,

I just want to share my experience (It is just my way of giving BACK to the hobby I love), every builder still need to take what I say with a grain of salt, and make their own decision up. You're the builder, risking your life and limbs in your creation, you make the ultimate decision.

Thanks if you find a SA Avation SprayCan primer source let me know please.

Good luck on your new RV7 project, I hope you enjoy it!

Groete,
Rudi
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Re: Rudi's RV10 Build

Unread post by hugo_visser » Sun Aug 30, 2009 7:52 am

Hi all, at Tedderfield there is a pilot who own a spraycan factory and will put into it what you need. I will try and get his ph number from Andy Kaspresen, and let you know. Andy is at Petit airport. I would love to come and look at your RV , when would be a good time? I do not want to disrupt your program to much and would love to build/own one, one day when my Alouette 3 project is complete in a year or so. Hugo. 0825610443
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Re: Rudi's RV10 Build

Unread post by RudiGreyling » Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:09 pm

hugo_visser wrote:Hi all, at Tedderfield there is a pilot who own a spraycan factory and will put into it what you need. I will try and get his ph number from Andy Kaspresen, and let you know. Andy is at Petit airport. I would love to come and look at your RV , when would be a good time? I do not want to disrupt your program to much and would love to build/own one, one day when my Alouette 3 project is complete in a year or so. Hugo. 0825610443
Thanks Hugo,
I build almost every night between 5 and 7 pm in the week Mon-Thursdays. Weekends it differs depending on family and Jolly commitments. You are welcome any time, phone me and let me know when, my number is on the first post of this thread.
Rudi
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Final Drilling the Elevators

Unread post by RudiGreyling » Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:12 pm

Good Monday RVators,

I attended the Bethlehem EAA convention so I only managed 4 hours this week.

I completed the initial assembly of both elevators and match-drilled all the holes to final size. Once again I used ALL my 500 silver cleckos, so I estimate +/- 1,000 holes on those elevators.

The top skin added to the elevator structure
Image

Then you drill both control horns to the elevators. Below are both ready for final drilling. See the white powder coated steel horns inboard of the elevators.
Image

This week I have to take everything apart and debur and clean up all those 1000 holes. Then Dimple or Countersink the holes for flush rivets, and then prepare and prime the structure underneath, only then can one start to rivet. We will see how far get but I doubt I will do any riveting this week, it is all just going to be prep work.

Till Next Time,
Regards
Rudi
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Re: Rudi's RV10 Build

Unread post by Ugly Duckling » Mon Aug 31, 2009 4:45 pm

I had the pleasure of visiting Rudi's "theatre" where he performs surgical magic on Vans Aircraft kits. :D
=D> What an experience to see his work & workshop. =D>
The RV12 components are waiting in their boxes to be collected but this RV10 is BIG :shock: in comparison to the 12 :)
Paul Sabatier EAA Ch 575, SSSA, ERGC, ERFC, AeroClub
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The object is to fly, it does not matter what the object is!

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