We survived Zuma, but can we survive the prophets of doom?

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Marius Schrenk
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Re: We survived Zuma, but can we survive the prophets of doom?

Unread post by Marius Schrenk » Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:39 pm

[quote=Fransw post_id=2060632 time=1565785132 user_i

LEO, thanks for sharing this article!

That's what I like about thread drift. Interesting things come out! Cage also made an interesting point about the way we deal with trauma situations. Yes, maybe we must get a better way to deal with bad stuff. Therapy of whatever.. Because the only thing we are doing now is to poisen the next generation(our children..) That's a good enough reason to try and deal with all this bad sh*t in a better way. Nothing wrong to ask for guidance...
[/quote]
Eisch Frans (I presume you mean it well) One should never poison the next generation. However its your duty to teach them the history,give them some insight into your experiences in life and why you make certain decisions.Why you see risk and how you mitigate it.It is also your duty to guide them not to make the mistakes you made. Once you have well informed (well rounded) young adults,leave them to make their own mistakes and build their own experiences (without softening the pain). My children are millennials with a totally different world view to mine. I accept that and wish them good luck on their tour through experience. Some of them (the one's that listened and educated themselves well) left the country because they were stuck in their jobs due to BEE. I never encouraged them to stay,as I cannot honestly convince myself its the right decision.Poisoned ?? No way. :?
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Re: We survived Zuma, but can we survive the prophets of doom?

Unread post by snoopy » Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:43 pm

HTR (a response from historic trauma) can become systemic in society to the point that it can overrun a society - and its not fixable in 10 years or even 20. RSA is full of it. Its been well researched in other societies that have gone through similar time lines of trauma.

Some battles because of their scale, cant be won by individuals - you can win your response to it on personal level, but it takes social engineering to turn a whole society around - and well, (thadha!) that is how we got here in the first place. Some just saw an opportunity - to milk this nation while there was still something to rob, and well they happen to be the same people who are responsible from systemic trauma in RSA which was instilled through social engineering, and its still alive and kicking to this very day...perpetuated with a deliberate motive.

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Re: We survived Zuma, but can we survive the prophets of doom?

Unread post by Marius Schrenk » Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:04 pm

Jack Welles wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:23 pm
Back to the topic, which was an article effectively encapsulated in the subject line.

I'm a firm believer in the man-at-the-top theory. The tone is set from above, whether govt or private enterprise. It's common cause that the current "tone" is pretty shoddy from the so-called 9 wasted years. I'm inclined to go further back and put some blame on Mbeki for his two-nations narrative. That enforced a schism that Mandela had, quite effectively, started to bridge, with his simunye (we are one) narrative.

So that's the context. Being so deep down in the "tone" dwang, Cyril has a steep hill to climb in this regard (although I believe his heart is in the right place). It's not the work of a day, week, month or even year. People (on both sides of the political divide) are vastly suspicious of each other. Only when the new "tone" is patently obvious will people (reluctantly?) start to believe.
As much as I wish too,I cannot share your optimism.The ruling party is a Socialist/communist party run by "committees" In such a setup(collective responsibility,where no one is individually responsible) the "man on top" is a figure head dancing to the tune set by the "committee"...as in the elective conference(Dec 2017) The "committee" is spiced by thieves and zumites, hell bend on staying out of jail and on the gravy train. He alone has zero chances of making a difference before he can sort out his party.....and that cannot be done.
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Re: We survived Zuma, but can we survive the prophets of doom?

Unread post by Fransw » Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:06 pm

Marius Schrenk wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:39 pm
[quote=Fransw post_id=2060632 time=1565785132 user_i

LEO, thanks for sharing this article!

That's what I like about thread drift. Interesting things come out! Cage also made an interesting point about the way we deal with trauma situations. Yes, maybe we must get a better way to deal with bad stuff. Therapy of whatever.. Because the only thing we are doing now is to poisen the next generation(our children..) That's a good enough reason to try and deal with all this bad sh*t in a better way. Nothing wrong to ask for guidance...
Eisch Frans (I presume you mean it well) One should never poison the next generation. However its your duty to teach them the history,give them some insight into your experiences in life and why you make certain decisions.Why you see risk and how you mitigate it.It is also your duty to guide them not to make the mistakes you made. Once you have well informed (well rounded) young adults,leave them to make their own mistakes and build their own experiences (without softening the pain). My children are millennials with a totally different world view to mine. I accept that and wish them good luck on their tour through experience. Some of them (the one's that listened and educated themselves well) left the country because they were stuck in their jobs due to BEE. I never encouraged them to stay,as I cannot honestly convince myself its the right decision.Poisoned ?? No way. :?
[/quote]

You misunderstood me completely..

You mentioned "Comical Ali" aka Baghdad Bob yesterday. Did you know his son is a medical practitioner at a private hospital in Dublin? That's where @Paulw and @Vanjast live! :shock: :lol:
The world is an interesting place for sure!
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Re: We survived Zuma, but can we survive the prophets of doom?

Unread post by SlowApproach » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:36 pm

All I can say is: "Never, in the field of internal conflict, has so much been f....d up for so many by so few..."
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Re: We survived Zuma, but can we survive the prophets of doom?

Unread post by cage » Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:24 am

Marius Schrenk wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:04 pm
..The ruling party is a Socialist/communist party run by "committees" In such a setup(collective responsibility,where no one is individually responsible) the "man on top" is a figure head dancing to the tune set by the "committee".....
You have pretty much described the essence of every political party and the reason Brexit is what it is :lol:
If any part of your happiness depends on competent, efficient, transparent and capable politicians then you may as well go visit your local pharmacist now and get some pilletjies. ;)
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Re: We survived Zuma, but can we survive the prophets of doom?

Unread post by snoopy » Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:59 am

Keep your head up and face to the sun - do what you can (even if that means you choose to leave) - and dont fret about the things you cant do anything about (die pap is nie die sous werd nie) - its a bad place to make serious decisions from.

Should things go seriously pear shaped here, we wont be the first or last African society to have faced the same. And just maybe such an event will actually bring out the best in people...while facing the worst kind, and hopefully the latter will learn a lesson they will never forget.

And remember - if you come from an old South African family - your great-grandparents, great-great-grandparents were probably all emigrants (boat people) once...thats how they ended up here. Why should you not have the same spirit?
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Re: We survived Zuma, but can we survive the prophets of doom?

Unread post by excolonial » Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:33 am

Haha, my old man was precisely that. He had saved up some of his salary, and his demob cash from the RAF and hopped on a boat to Durban. He told me that some excellent chap befriended him on the voyage and they drank whiskey and made merry. On the last night before docking in Durban they had a hell of a party, sponsored by his new friend. He woke up to find most had disembarked including his loot and valuables.

Started from scratch working odd jobs for food and board. He was a wise old bugger when I knew him, but I suspect he learned many a hard lesson on the way up. But they were simpler times in Africa, and after the horrors of WWII I doubt there was much he feared.

Perhaps that is the one thing that we can be thankful for from the current situation - a heightened awareness of danger and certainly a higher risk threshold than most.
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Re: We survived Zuma, but can we survive the prophets of doom?

Unread post by Jack Welles » Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:49 am

snoopy wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:59 am
And remember - if you come from an old South African family - your great-grandparents, great-great-grandparents were probably all emigrants (boat people) once...thats how they ended up here. Why should you not have the same spirit?
I would think the vast majority of Saffers (like 90%) did not originate from boat people emigrant stock no matter how far back you go into their antecedents.

Back on topic: many of the posts in this thread alone prove that Saffers generally have an uphill task in order to survive the prophets of doom 8-[ :lol:
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Re: We survived Zuma, but can we survive the prophets of doom?

Unread post by excolonial » Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:35 am

Prophets of doom or agents of relentless optimism, what's the difference?

The other 90% percent of South Africans walked there, the only difference being the mode of transport and the observers view of each.

Most of us sit comfortably in the middle observing reality, enjoying life, but not pretending "everything is gonna be alright". Ignorance may be bliss, but knowledge is power.
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Re: We survived Zuma, but can we survive the prophets of doom?

Unread post by snoopy » Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:47 am

The other 90% percent of South Africans walked there, the only difference being the mode of transport and the observers view of each.
Exacles....all tough and adventurous people... :idea: Many 1st world nation people - dont have 1/3 of our survival skills, and would have given up here a long time ago.

No matter whether your ancestors sailed in here or walked in...only a very small remnant remains of the original people of this area.. about 95 000 in total, and of them; only about 3000 hold to their original traditions.

Generally you will assimilate towards that which you desire in a social group. The rest you dont resonate with you will toss aside.

In that regard you got to question yourself - as to whether you are comfortable assimilating to what SA society is becoming (trends) or not - and the answer to that will be different for each individual in terms of how much they are prepared to change/adapt, risk or compromise.
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Re: We survived Zuma, but can we survive the prophets of doom?

Unread post by cage » Thu Aug 15, 2019 12:07 pm

excolonial wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:35 am
but knowledge is power.
But everyone believes they have the knowledge, few do.
The internet, fringe and mainstream media is pumping people full of "knowledge".
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Re: We survived Zuma, but can we survive the prophets of doom?

Unread post by snoopy » Thu Aug 15, 2019 12:13 pm

But everyone believes they have the knowledge, few do. The internet, fringe and mainstream media is pumping people full of "knowledge".
The net is both useful and destructive - depending on what sources you use. Some sources on the net are credible others are well, basically just busy with skulduggery (overwhelmingly so).

So again more than ever you need to drive decision making on credible intelligence - not just unverifiable bias information, opinion or propaganda.

Many examples on the net - especially on social media - of people (adults)who simply CANNOT think critically anymore - and simply want to be dictated to...as if its a preference. Thick as a brick and easily swayed by populist beliefs/trends.
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Re: We survived Zuma, but can we survive the prophets of doom?

Unread post by Jean Crous » Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:05 pm

snoopy wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 12:13 pm
But everyone believes they have the knowledge, few do. The internet, fringe and mainstream media is pumping people full of "knowledge".
The net is both useful and destructive - depending on what sources you use. Some sources on the net are credible others are well, basically just busy with skulduggery (overwhelmingly so).

So again more than ever you need to drive decision making on credible intelligence - not just unverifiable bias information, opinion or propaganda.

Many examples on the net - especially on social media - of people (adults)who simply CANNOT think critically anymore - and simply want to be dictated to...as if its a preference. Thick as a brick and easily swayed by populist beliefs/trends.
My view exactly , =D> =D> =D> . Very well put Meneer.
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Re: We survived Zuma, but can we survive the prophets of doom?

Unread post by Mouser » Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:58 pm

Deviating but as regards "thinking", I really try and follow the Viktor Frankl idea that we can choose how to react to circumstances. Even when part paralysed by bad news info overload and ranting, I try and look ahead realistically at what could happen then plot a course. I'm too old and timid for SA scud running.

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