How real are the threats of global warming?

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dany
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Re: How real are the threats of global warming?

Unread post by dany » Thu Sep 28, 2017 8:48 am

Absolute correct. But the clever guys recon they can handle base load with solar and wind, how,do not ask me. We just keep hearing about new technology in the future.But here another train derail on this whole argument. About all coal plants today scrub emissions and the larger problem lay with vechicles. You see, one must compare facts here. Which sector generate the most CO2. That is the sector they need to come up with solutions. And it is just not realistic. Academics like things to look good on paper and that is how they generate income. As a academic to come up with a practical solution,and they beyond useless.And if one attend conferences then this is also a topic much discussed. (Now we back to what most of us say, this is all waffle,as yes, we agree climate change is real,BUT, it been going on since the birth of earth. We need toa dress a lot of problems before we start to bark up this tree.But the academics turn a blind eye to immediate problems because they just do not make money from the solutions--sewage pumped into the coean,waste dumped, and so we can carry on. CO2 arguments is a income generator for as long as we live.
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Re: How real are the threats of global warming?

Unread post by sampie » Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:33 am

Indeed climate has always changed, scientists know that, deniers use this phrase all the time to try and cause widespread confusion.

Humans today are emitting prodigious quantities of CO2, at a rate faster than even the most destructive climate changes in earth's past.
Those abrupt global warming events were almost always highly destructive for life, causing mass extinctions such as at the end of the Permian, Triassic, or even mid-Cambrian periods.

Technology has come far and I have no doubt that the technology will be advanced surpassing what we even can conceive today should it be given a proper chance, given the times we live in, but many are stuck in their ways trying to dumb down everything that can potentially revolutionize the energy industry. It is the the fossil fuel industry that is making the real money by the 100s of billions of dollars out of their bottomless pit of deceiving practices.
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Re: How real are the threats of global warming?

Unread post by Jack Welles » Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:42 am

sampie wrote: Technology has come far and I have no doubt that the technology will be advanced surpassing what we even can conceive today should it be given a proper chance, given the times we live in, but many are stuck in their ways trying to dumb down everything that can potentially revolutionize the energy industry. It is the the fossil fuel industry that is making the real money by the 100s of billions of dollars out of their bottomless pit of deceiving practices.
Isn't the fossil fuel industry doing a lot to "clean" up its act?

IOW, aren't coal-fired plants etc emitting a lot less pollution than before?
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Re: How real are the threats of global warming?

Unread post by sampie » Thu Sep 28, 2017 10:26 am

Coal is dirty in a whole host of ways, from the moment it’s pulled out of the ground to the moment we use it to turn on the lights.

"Clean Coal" technology doesn’t exist yet. Few technologies exist today that actually make coal cleaner. Take carbon capture and sequestration (CCS), wherein power plants trap carbon emissions and then bury them deep in the ground to keep them from reaching the atmosphere. China has gotten a lot of press from investing heavily in CCS research, but at this stage it’s just that: research. Other solutions, from gasifying coal to scrubbing out toxic minerals, are even further from real world use.

Even if the technology was there, the numbers don’t add up. The larger reason clean coal has not been a breakout technology is that it’s just not economically viable. In general, most polluters pollute because it’s cheaper and easier than spending money to make their operations environmentally friendly. The coal industry is no different. All current ideas about clean coal technology are expensive. They’re expensive to research, expensive to install, and companies won’t make more profit for all that money spent. Economists just don’t think the numbers will ever work to make clean coal technology thrive on its own in the free market.
dany
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Re: How real are the threats of global warming?

Unread post by dany » Thu Sep 28, 2017 10:39 am

Solar, wind, hydro,coal and nuclear got a place on earth. The problem is that it is easy to sit and point a finger from the armchair. How ,any of these academics actually changed their own lifestyle at home to life a cleaner life, recycling and all . Remember, it all start with the person on the street, they buy cars, they buy groceries packed in plastics and so we can carry on.There are much more to this issue then just simple CO2 argument. And then of coarse the media . Like many of these academics, they only tell half the tale not the whole book. Sampie, I hear what you say, but we must also remember, the coal and oil industry is what make the world what it is today. Take coal and oil out of the cycle, and I tell you we go back to the flintstone age,as about each and everything today use products that originate from coal and oil. Solar and wind will just not be on planet earth,without coal and oil. One need to be realistic about these things. How do you manufacture a wind generator without a copper mine,how doyou run a copper mine only on wind and solar. Chicken and egg scenario. Pollution is one of planet earths biggest threats, and it is not CO2, but what we produce day to day and what measures we impliment to change that. Sadly, not much is done regarding this.
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Re: How real are the threats of global warming?

Unread post by sampie » Thu Sep 28, 2017 10:57 am

Sure I can agree to some of your points, however Co2 is just as much as a threat as any other threat. It's not an immediate threat yes, it's a long term threat, though the changes in the climate is already happening, in the longer term, it is a devestating threat, and if nothing is being done to curb it as far as man kind's contribution, and everyone just let to their own devices pumping gasses into the air and polluting relentlessly by free will, it will bite us in the rear just like when the ice ages occured.

As to your other points, You get good people and bad people, in corporate, science, politics and in the media those who distort and deceive are out there, those that tell the truth are out ther too. Sometimes getting to the truth is not easy, but the truth is there.
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Re: How real are the threats of global warming?

Unread post by dany » Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:39 am

Agree. The topic of the pollution of our ocean which also provide food right now,is in the eyes of many, top prioroty,yet, you do not see the media go crazy with this. On many conferences I attand this also come to the discussion and sadly, about nobody really pay attention. And this is reality and a lot of us scratch head why so many is driven with this CO2 issue when the immediate danger is ignored. And it is from here on then,that the money story come to table. And obvious the media do not write what is actually said at these conferences.

They took the bit in highlight where we agree that climate change and CO 2 is bu---t. Meaning, it is used to make money and not really the final solution but only part of the solution. I also say it is bullthist,but in that specific context. We are not academics sitting in a room writing stuff. We are on the practical side of affairs, see the reality. Many of these writers and academics got pure white skin,as they never come out into the sun. Nevermind visiting mines, the sewage works, crawl like us in sewage pipes,walk waste deep in <<moderated - language>>(with protective clothing). We understand how a CAT D11 work,and how a smelter work. We see first hand the damage some mining do,and where other mines clean up their act. For now, the manufacturing process of solar panels is EVIL to say the least.

Can they clean up their act, hmmmm,now we open another whole canning factory full of worms. Now we talk about rare earth minerals,and these little guys are extreme dangerous. Once in large concentrations,you never ever get them out again. And they poison everything. Not going to deep into itas its a very complex field,but ask this question on any renewable forum or conference also make you a lot of enemies very qiuckly. When one start a mine, there is also a plan on the tbale for rehabilitation once the mine close and its general asked that you show the funds in seperate accounts saved for that. Now ask about the clean up in solar,specificly,and hmmmmmm, the clever guys all of a sudden need to go to the toilet.

You see, it is fine knocking the current industry, but show the world the whole plan of renewable energy,tell the whole world about the mining and prosessing of extreme poisoness elemants thats unearthed and then put in large concentrations. You see where this discussions leads to.? Mining and processing of rare earth elements is a sensitive program,so sentitive that some first worl countries banned the mining of such elemenst,but its cool to import or start a mine in developing countries and let other people pick up the tab for poision and lifestock that die in years to come.And with new processes, much of these elements can come from coal ming,thus lessen the mining foot print, sadly,somebody must pay for it and it is not free for all.
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Re: How real are the threats of global warming?

Unread post by dany » Thu Sep 28, 2017 3:22 pm

Now do not through against my head I am against renewable energy, but we need to be very carefull when we talk about them. There is also danger to it. Sadly,the people who sell specificly solar, never talk about this.Nor the corporate prostitues.









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Re: How real are the threats of global warming?

Unread post by heisan » Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:07 am

An interesting article, well demonstrated by the very existence of this thread:

https://www.buzzfeed.com/zahrahirji/how ... .glyL5mw93
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Re: How real are the threats of global warming?

Unread post by sampie » Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:27 pm

Good one, just one out of countless examples exactly how deniers work, twisting and BS**ing information to fuel their BS propaganda spree.
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Re: How real are the threats of global warming?

Unread post by vanjast » Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:33 pm

heisan wrote:An interesting article, well demonstrated by the very existence of this thread:
https://www.buzzfeed.com/zahrahirji/how ... .glyL5mw93
sampie wrote:Good one, just one out of countless examples exactly how deniers work, twisting and BS**ing information to fuel their BS propaganda spree.
Good God... look at this BS.

220K+ online likes and media shares
analysis of online media traffic
Twitter
Google+


... and you use this as your confirmation of scientific analysis and peer review.
No wonder the world is so Ph....d up
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Re: How real are the threats of global warming?

Unread post by excolonial » Fri Oct 06, 2017 4:25 am

sampie wrote:Good one, just one out of countless examples exactly how deniers work, twisting and BS**ing information to fuel their BS propaganda spree.
Deniers, really? - a laughable parallel you are trying to draw with obvious inferences regarding your perception of the morality of people who disagree with you.

Your science is no more or no less valid than those you are trying to demonise, but hey, being part of the flock is at least comforting I suppose.

Dany, it seems people choose to ignore the very real and imminent threats the world is facing, which we could do something about quite easily, and would rather focus on thier little hobby horse. "Climate Change". Which was warming and then cooling, and then warming again...
The older I get, the more I am convinced that "A Confederacy of Dunces" is non fiction.
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Re: How real are the threats of global warming?

Unread post by sampie » Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:26 am

excolonial wrote:
sampie wrote:Good one, just one out of countless examples exactly how deniers work, twisting and BS**ing information to fuel their BS propaganda spree.
Deniers, really? - a laughable parallel you are trying to draw with obvious inferences regarding your perception of the morality of people who disagree with you.

Your science is no more or no less valid than those you are trying to demonise, but hey, being part of the flock is at least comforting I suppose.

Dany, it seems people choose to ignore the very real and imminent threats the world is facing, which we could do something about quite easily, and would rather focus on thier little hobby horse. "Climate Change". Which was warming and then cooling, and then warming again...
Hilarious, my inferences about climate is based on credible scienctific evidence, that clearly shows the bias within the denier community when provided with the evidence, yet they cannot prove it wrong.

As been the case for decades now the very same traits always follows: They act ignorant, they deny, and when that does not work, they try and lie, and when they become desperate, fake,cherry pick or twist the evidence, your disillusional conclusions brings nothing but degrading exposure for the way politicians and those deliberatly ignoring science think.

You Yourself Trying to undermine reputible scientific evidence just because You say so, i'm sorry to say does not make it so.

There are many threats in this world, Human Induced Climate Change IS one of them.
Last edited by sampie on Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How real are the threats of global warming?

Unread post by excolonial » Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:41 am

Okay science and propaganda denier, what are you doing to reduce your impact on the climate?

Like your changamires a big fat zero I suspect, just hot air about the facts as you and the climate industry purport them to be.

Oh and for the record I did not say that I was certain of our impact on climate change one way or the other. It is the absolute certainty that you and your kind apply to what is very uncertain science that I find most troubling. Add to that the absolute and monstrous hypocracy of many of its leading propagandists, and you have lost most of the free thinking people I know.
The older I get, the more I am convinced that "A Confederacy of Dunces" is non fiction.
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Re: How real are the threats of global warming?

Unread post by sampie » Fri Oct 06, 2017 8:06 am

excolonial wrote:Okay science and propaganda denier, what are you doing to reduce your impact on the climate?

Like your changamires a big fat zero I suspect, just hot air about the facts as you and the climate industry purport them to be.

Oh and for the record I did not say that I was certain of our impact on climate change one way or the other. It is the absolute certainty that you and your kind apply to what is very uncertain science that I find most troubling. Add to that the absolute and monstrous hypocracy of many of its leading propagandists, and you have lost most of the free thinking people I know.
Yet another typical denier question, I've been doing what i can and will do more in future i'm not going to write two pages about it, It's not about just what i do, it's about what everyone does when they know what is happening and what we do together to try and make a difference.

Aaah there you again, exactly what i just said in my previous reply, "uncertain science" If there is "uncertain science" Show me Your study to contradict it ? Don't have one ? Science is not propaganda,science is the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behavior of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment.

It's distinguishing between the pseudo and the real science twisted by fossil fuel's corruption on purpose that makes it hard for some to come by.
Free thinking ??, if deliberate denial, lying, twisting, spreading propaganda is what free thinkers do, then i'll pass thanks.

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