Emigration options

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snoopy
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Re: Emigration options

Unread post by snoopy » Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:24 am

The new tax law amendment states you will pay 45% on any foreign earning exceeding ZAR1 million per annum to SARS. As from 1 March 2020...next year.

Anyway, just be aware of this... if you are emigrating now.
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Re: Emigration options

Unread post by cage » Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:26 am

snoopy wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:24 am
The new tax law amendment states you will pay 45% on any foreign earning exceeding ZAR1 million per annum to SARS. As from 1 March 2020...next year.
IIRC you offset tax paid offshore against that, so it only applies where tax paid is less than 45%.
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Re: Emigration options

Unread post by snoopy » Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:29 am

I read there is an offset, but the difference between the foreign tax you pay (if the country you work in taxes income) , and the SARS scale, you'll still need to pay to SARS.

Again just be aware of this curve ball come March 2020. Its a new speed bump not in effect as yet. So nothing you read on SARS's website now - will mention this yet.
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Re: Emigration options

Unread post by Jack Welles » Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:36 am

snoopy wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:58 am
Ergo if you fall into the top SA tax bracket on your overseas income, even if its not taxed in countries like the UAE - you will now be taxed on your UAE income in SA - as if you were working and earning it here. Thats how I read it.
It's important to point out that this only if you are an SA tax "resident" (as defined in the relevant legislation). Simply saying you are no longer resident in SA may be indicative but won't be definitive. If you don't meet at least one of the two "resident" criteria you will not be deemed an SA taxpayer.

As an aside: I would earnestly recommend that when searching for tax information on the Internet people focus on known legal or accounting organisations or even SARS's website (which is really quite good). When an article is written by, and I quote:

"Lucinda is a hard news writer who occasionally dabbles in lifestyle writing, and recent journalism graduate [sic]. She is a proud intersectional feminist, and is passionate about actively creating a world which is free of discrimination and inequality."

you should perhaps exercise caution before implementing any suggestions gathered there.

Unfortunately the inability to write English accurately (which is why the "[sic]", the words were hers not mine) is hardly reassuring.
Last edited by Jack Welles on Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Emigration options

Unread post by vanjast » Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:42 am

Well as I've mentioned... Financial emigration means that you're gone. the next process it to relieve yourself of your SA residency and passport.
The result of this is that expats who would normally bring foreign monies into SA are now.... gone.
These people would normally be supporting local jobs, like domestics who in turn would be supporting their families, paying UIF, have bank accounts.. etc.
The Expats would normally also be spending a lot more on in shops ..etc which pays many others salaries and keeps business's going.

SARS would benefit much more with a wider tax base resulting from this 'untaxed money' coming into SA, yet they go and destroy it with greed and stupidity.

Emigration is not personal, it's business ;)
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Re: Emigration options

Unread post by Fransw » Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:47 am

Jack Welles wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:45 am
Fransw wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:58 am
Question Eddy: Is there a summarized list of SA's double tax agreements.
http://www.sars.gov.za/Legal/Internatio ... fault.aspx Just click on the relevant links. It's all there.
I find it a bit confusing, for example some treaties are in place but not "signed of" yet. And some are "signed of" but not in working yet! :? Is this a can of earth worms?(in a good way..) :D
It's just that once they've been negotiated between the two countries they have to go through the whole process of being ratified by both countries (parliamentary-type processes) and then finally signed off on.

During the ratification process there's often a niggle that one side or the other will have with some wording or concept or whatever and then that has to be renegotiated and the whole process starts afresh. The same thing happens if you have change of political party in one of the countries before the DT is ratified. They may have a different socio-political agenda to the previous crowd and then the whole thing has to be renegotiated.

As you surmised there's nothing sinister in the process just fairly typical international bureaucratic BS.
Thanks! Complex but interesting field. And the tax agreements don't change overnight..
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Re: Emigration options

Unread post by Jack Welles » Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:55 am

vanjast wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:42 am
Emigration is not personal, it's business ;)
:D I entirely disagree believing it's much more likely to be personal. If the hustle and bustle of Africa causes anxiety and stress the only answer is to emigrate to more tranquil climes such as, for example, New Zealand. That is very definitely personal.

However I do think that people who emigrate should make every attempt to integrate into the new society in which they find themselves. When my wife came to SA she took on SA citizenship at the earliest possible opportunity and even supports the Boks when they're playing the British and Irish Lions :lol:

IMO to sit in a new country fussing about the old country is an exercise in futility.
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Re: Emigration options

Unread post by Fransw » Sat Jan 19, 2019 12:14 pm

Agree, is personal in 99% of the cases with so called business reasons! :lol:

Nothing wrong with it BTW..
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Re: Emigration options

Unread post by vanjast » Sat Jan 19, 2019 12:17 pm

It'll be many things, but for Expats this Extra Tax on top of the Double Taxation will be the final nail in the coffin (this will be about the money that the SARS legal system is 'effectively stealing') for SA.

This country here provides massive tax incentives to foreigners and locals alike, and you can see the effects of this
More positive than negative. The country is now at the beginning of it's second boom (hopefully not explosive :lol: )
Their greed destroyed the first boom, but they've since learnt their lesson as most here agree.

Now if SA stopped making laws to 'steal', and think out the kraal, they could effective have the same, it's common sense.
BUT... there's always one of these.. :wink: I don't think that is ever going to happen as the SA infrastructure has all but been destroyed over the past 25 years and this would have to be repaired first (besides getting rid of the cANCer) before anything can happen.
This is a major reason why people have emigrated, not emotional/personal, just business (BEE theft and other items like that).
:wink:
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Re: Emigration options

Unread post by rare bird » Sat Jan 19, 2019 12:59 pm

@vanjast : imo the oukes that have never worked in gvt or a SOE will not understand what you are talking about.
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Re: Emigration options

Unread post by cage » Sat Jan 19, 2019 1:06 pm

vanjast wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 12:17 pm
It'll be many things, but for Expats this Extra Tax on top of the Double Taxation will be the final nail in the coffin (this will be about the money that the SARS legal system is 'effectively stealing') for SA.
So the US also "steals" tax revenue from their citizens working abroad?
This isn't a South African concept.
If you want to cut ties with the country and not pay tax then you are able to do so.
It has been discussed before but some yanks do give up their citizenship to avoid taxation on offshore wealth.

If you are maintaining your ties, intending to return, but wanting to make some quick tax-free cash then SARS will be coming for you, rightly so.
Why expect everyone else to pay taxes to fund the country so you can take advantage of it later?
That's a bit of a free ride.

You can't have your cake and eat it (without paying the tax on it).
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Re: Emigration options

Unread post by vanjast » Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:17 pm

I heard about this sometime ago... interestesting
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-04- ... ly-illegal
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Re: Emigration options

Unread post by hugo_visser » Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:55 pm

For the general population I can not agree with the free ride, paying the difference to SA in tax, One is not in the country to use the infrastructure paid by the taxman, and tax are wasted and not used to pay for the infrastructure at the moment. Then for those who done national service in the bush war, the gov used that part of the population for their free ride because very few realize, with all the camps you have done nearly 4 years of national service for peanuts and disrespect. Those who where on the other side, MK, become promoted without skills. 2 times I saw how my father and father in law where treated in a private hospital, when in need of help, both left the hospital before recovery because of the underlying hatred being taken out on them by the nurses. My sons wife is a nurse and the cover up of that made her to change profession. Sorry of topic, as I am getting older I will not go to a SA hospital if I can help it, and will make another plan.

Being in NZ at the moment, I hurt my knee, the treatment, and how I was treated, and the follow up, amazing, and have only been a resident here for 6 months. Paid by the government. Here I will pay tax with a smile.

Hugo.
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Re: Emigration options

Unread post by cage » Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:15 pm

Being a citizen of any country has responsibilities.. ask not what your country can do for you ..etc
Much like you can be conscripted as a citizen you are expected to contribute to your country irrespective where you may be.
To be fair there are laws to prevent double taxation (or indeed taxation).
Now because you don't like who is running the place, or your personal experience thereof doesn't change what being a citizen is.

If you feel so personally about it, and have options, you can stop being a citizen as some Americans can do (I notice no one is refusing to emigrate to the US because of this).

Bottom line, after a tax allowance (again like the US) if you are paying less tax elsewhere as a citizen you will be expected to pay the difference locally.
All tax authorities are clamping down on tax avoidance of citizens.
No one wants to pay tax but it is just the way it is.

Everyone with such strong opinions should have no issue saying goodbye permanently to the land, severing their ties and moving on.
Else, pay up. :smt106

Personally I would be more concerned about the proposal for prescribed assets on pension funds.
That should really wind up the duracell bunnies :twisted:
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Re: Emigration options

Unread post by Fransw » Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:34 pm

hugo_visser wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:55 pm
For the general population I can not agree with the free ride, paying the difference to SA in tax, One is not in the country to use the infrastructure paid by the taxman, and tax are wasted and not used to pay for the infrastructure at the moment. Then for those who done national service in the bush war, the gov used that part of the population for their free ride because very few realize, with all the camps you have done nearly 4 years of national service for peanuts and disrespect. Those who where on the other side, MK, become promoted without skills. 2 times I saw how my father and father in law where treated in a private hospital, when in need of help, both left the hospital before recovery because of the underlying hatred being taken out on them by the nurses. My sons wife is a nurse and the cover up of that made her to change profession. Sorry of topic, as I am getting older I will not go to a SA hospital if I can help it, and will make another plan.

Being in NZ at the moment, I hurt my knee, the treatment, and how I was treated, and the follow up, amazing, and have only been a resident here for 6 months. Paid by the government. Here I will pay tax with a smile.

Hugo.
True. Lekker to contribute to a system that is running like a well oiled machine. It makes one proud to pay taxes!.

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