Global warming

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cage
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Re: Global warming

Unread post by cage » Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:47 am

There is no value in trying to discuss a subject which is science based with a small audience of conspiracy theorists that can't tell the difference between opinion and fact.
The googlenistas will just keep sending videos and links from people that have no credibility and can only muddy the waters with charismatic banter and selective use of information removed entirely from its context.
A religion is a belief, science isn't.
There are no "sides" in physics but I guess if you can believe the world is flat you can believe anything.
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Re: Global warming

Unread post by vanjast » Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:23 pm

There's a very simple idea behind this.
Intelligent discussion would go by the way of either proving or disproving each others evidence or interpretation of data,
Which no-one here is in a position to do, but what this guy (like many others) is doing is showing different interpretation, in a humorous way.

What is 'science research'... collection of data, make an educated guess of what you think it is, using Stats. Do you have enough data, have you made the correct assumption. It's all open to interpretation as Science is not 'exact' as you think it is - so why not entertain different ideas (they may be right) or would that be too hard to accept. ;)
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Re: Global warming

Unread post by zander » Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:42 pm

vanjast wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:23 pm
There's a very simple idea behind this.
Intelligent discussion would go by the way of either proving or disproving each others evidence or interpretation of data,
Which no-one here is in a position to do, but what this guy (like many others) is doing is showing different interpretation, in a humorous way.

What is 'science research'... collection of data, make an educated guess of what you think it is, using Stats. Do you have enough data, have you made the correct assumption. It's all open to interpretation as Science is not 'exact' as you think it is - so why not entertain different ideas (they may be right) or would that be too hard to accept. ;)
Absolutely false, you clearly either did not listen, nor understand or both about what has been pointed out, it is NOT an interpretation, the speaker points to actual data compiled by scientists specialising in their field, not the presenter's own interpretation threreof. You keep being stuck at saying "evidence and interpretation of data" The data speaks for itself, it cannot be interpreted in "different ways", only cherry picked and deceivingly changed as with the case with your speaker that has been caught out.

The evidence Science provide is not "our" "interpretation" it comes straight from the data collected pointed out clearly in the 3 videos above.

On the other hand The deniers uses skewed political propaganda as "evidence" which is beyond laughable, paid oil shrills and paid oil scientists to 1 Lie, 2 Skew perceptions and 3, Deceive. The last 3 videos more than clearly shows exactly this, the evidence points to unbiased scientific data, not "interpretations" therof.
Last edited by zander on Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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zander
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Re: Global warming

Unread post by zander » Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:49 pm

What is 'science research'... collection of data, make an educated guess of what you think it is, using Stats. Do you have enough data, It's all open to interpretation as Science is not 'exact' as you think it is - so why not entertain different ideas (they may be right) or would that be too hard to accept. ;)
No False again, that is YOUR own interpretation.
Science is the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behaviour of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment.

Examined repeated and cross examined by Scientists specialising in the field across the whole world.
have you made the correct assumption.do you have enough data
Yet you post about a known lying and deceiving scientist to try and prove your stance.
A tactic many deniers use, First you post a presentation featuring a scientist lying by contradicting his own statements, cherry picking and conveniently leaving out evidence that will prove him wrong as proof for your counter argument. That would mean you Do believe in the data,then when you find out he had been proven wrong and the truth clearly made visible, basically shot himself in the foot by lying so many times and cherry picking so much data, as you no longer have an argument you suddenly find yourself backed into a corner, quickly changing your opinion by all of a sudden questioning the “data” because your oil backed scientist have been proven wrong.


Scientists aren't some kid thumb sucking snarky comments and putting it into a bogus propaganda paper.
They observe test, experiment, cross experiment, cross study repeat over years and years collaborating with fellow scientists across the world, they are not called scientists for nothing, once the results have been proven satisfied through multiple repeated studies then they provide it as evidence.

It is not up to YOU a non qualified climate scientists to thumb suck the criteria for science, it has been established.
come up with different "ideas"
There is no different idea, and idea is just an idea, come up with evidence, not false interpretations, lies and deceit then it might be taken seriously.
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Re: Global warming

Unread post by bosvark » Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:48 am

12 pages of going "soos 'n passer om sy eie gat"
No one is going to change anyone's mind on this. It's worse than religion and politics....
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Re: Global warming

Unread post by nicofly » Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:53 am

That's not the point, exposing the lies, and deception is the point. And this thread has been doing a great job of it :wink:
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Re: Global warming

Unread post by cage » Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:57 am

bosvark wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:48 am
It's worse than religion and politics....
Indeed, it is amazing how people can turn what is a structured, scientific topic into opinion and beliefs.
The ability to manufacture grey areas to discredit what is black and white subject matter is quite amazing.
It is fascinating to see how keen the masses are to ingest misinformation and to be lead by the nose into conspiracy theory by people who's livelihood is based on obfuscation.
You don't even have to dig particularly deeply below the surface to see the complete nonsense that self-proclaimed experts dispense.
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Re: Global warming

Unread post by Skymaster » Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:45 pm

The alarmists who worship at the alter of "Co2 causes global warming" were somewhat shattered by the hiatus. Many scientists with impeccable credentials were of the view that this validated their questions regarding "Co2 being the single cause of global warming" and the litany of doom and gloom forecasts that never came true. The alarmist brigade have now claimed that the "hiatus" did not happen with a vast pile of "peer reviewed" papers probably looked over by the "handful of chaps" that Hulme referred to. Meanwhile many scientists continue to ask questions, despite the childlike abuse and attacks they are subject from supposed "men of science".
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Re: Global warming

Unread post by heisan » Mon Jan 07, 2019 3:18 pm

Skymaster wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:45 pm
The alarmists who worship at the alter of "Co2 causes global warming" were somewhat shattered by the hiatus. Many scientists with impeccable credentials were of the view that this validated their questions regarding "Co2 being the single cause of global warming" and the litany of doom and gloom forecasts that never came true. The alarmist brigade have now claimed that the "hiatus" did not happen with a vast pile of "peer reviewed" papers probably looked over by the "handful of chaps" that Hulme referred to. Meanwhile many scientists continue to ask questions, despite the childlike abuse and attacks they are subject from supposed "men of science".
1) Again - please read the *actual* paper published by Hlume (see the link I posted above), rather than further dragging his name through the mud with the rather extreme misquotes that deniers are spreading.

2) Even the source of the 'hiatus' data has admitted it was wrong. It is only trotted out by deniers who are stuck 10 years in the past, who can somehow overlook the continuous stream of 'record high temperatures' while global averages are supposedly staying the same. (Out of interest, the error came in because this data is not based on actual temperature measurements, but rather on a mathematical absorption model, which has been proven incorrect - and accepted as incorrect by most deniers too.)
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cage
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Re: Global warming

Unread post by cage » Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:28 pm

That is quite funny. Expecting someone to actually read the document that is being misquoted?! :lol:
Hell, that might provide some actual accurate context, unfortunately it also starts showing the cracks in a hopelessly (and intentionally) incorrect argument.
You're trying to discuss a topic with people that don't actually understand the science nor process.
The "beliefs" here have nothing to do with climate change, it is about sustaining a conspiracy theory and for that there is zero you can share that won't just be interpreted as further showing how deep the conspiracy goes.
You will only continue to spiral down the google wormhole, one youtube video and misquote at a time.
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Re: Global warming

Unread post by zander » Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:22 pm

Skymaster wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:45 pm
The alarmists who worship at the alter of "Co2 causes global warming" were somewhat shattered by the hiatus. blahblahbla....
These claims are blatantly false: the past two years were two of the three hottest on record, and the drop in temperature from 2016 to 2018 was less than the drop from 1998 (a previous record hot year) to 2000. But, more importantly, these claims use the same kind of misdirection as was used a few years ago about a supposed “pause” in warming lasting from roughly 1998 to 2013.

For the public and the media, the lesson is to check claims about the data. In particular, when claims are made based on short periods or specific datasets, they are often designed to mislead. If someone claims the world hasn’t warmed since 1998 or 2016, ask them why those specific years – why not 1997 or 2014? Why have such short limits at all? And also check how reliable similar claims have been in the past.

The technique of misinformation is nicely described in a quote attributed to climate researcher Michael Tobis:

“If a large data set speaks convincingly against you, find a smaller and noisier one that you can huffily cite.”

Global warming didn’t stop in 1998. Don’t be fooled by claims that it stopped in 2016 either. There is only one thing that will stop global warming: cuts to greenhouse gas emissions.
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Re: Global warming

Unread post by excolonial » Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:05 pm

Skymaster wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:45 pm
The alarmists who worship at the alter of "Co2 causes global warming" were somewhat shattered by the hiatus. Many scientists with impeccable credentials were of the view that this validated their questions regarding "Co2 being the single cause of global warming" and the litany of doom and gloom forecasts that never came true. The alarmist brigade have now claimed that the "hiatus" did not happen with a vast pile of "peer reviewed" papers probably looked over by the "handful of chaps" that Hulme referred to. Meanwhile many scientists continue to ask questions, despite the childlike abuse and attacks they are subject from supposed "men of science".
Precisely the point, everyone's an expert, unless they disagree with the demagogues, then they are a "denier", influence peddlar... blah blah, rah rah..

Surprisingly similar to the political rhetoric in the US. No-one questions what they believe, but are quite happy to insult, denigrate and insist they are correct and are absolutely certain of their beliefs.

Its not the science that bothers me, neither the right or wrong of the situation, but the certainty of those who choose to believe the "science" that supports their enthusiastic Braai chatter. Yet none are doing anything meaningful to combat the warming they are certain they are causing.

Perhaps that is the very essence of a demagogue, do as I say, not as I do - rather like the hero for said revolution, that goliath galloping halfwhit - Al Gore.
The older I get, the more I am convinced that "A Confederacy of Dunces" is non fiction.
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Re: Global warming

Unread post by cage » Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:55 pm

excolonial wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:05 pm
Yet none are doing anything meaningful to combat the warming they are certain they are causing.
Balls.
You'd need to be a halfwit to not be doing anything.
Some things are forced on us (like more efficient vehicles and products - which is why legislation and international agreements matter) others are common sense - rising prices, be more power efficient etc.
The real guilty party aren't the schmucks in the street, it's big business.

btw, perhaps Al Gore is someones hero. He certainly isn't to anyone that matters. An inconvenient stereotype methinks.
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Re: Global warming

Unread post by nicofly » Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:55 am

excolonial wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:05 pm
Skymaster wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:45 pm
The alarmists who worship at the alter of "Co2 causes global warming" were somewhat shattered by the hiatus. Many scientists with impeccable credentials were of the view that this validated their questions regarding "Co2 being the single cause of global warming" and the litany of doom and gloom forecasts that never came true. The alarmist brigade have now claimed that the "hiatus" did not happen with a vast pile of "peer reviewed" papers probably looked over by the "handful of chaps" that Hulme referred to. Meanwhile many scientists continue to ask questions, despite the childlike abuse and attacks they are subject from supposed "men of science".
Precisely the point, everyone's an expert, unless they disagree with the demagogues, then they are a "denier", influence peddlar... blah blah, rah rah..

Surprisingly similar to the political rhetoric in the US. No-one questions what they believe, but are quite happy to insult, denigrate and insist they are correct and are absolutely certain of their beliefs.

Its not the science that bothers me, neither the right or wrong of the situation, but the certainty of those who choose to believe the "science" that supports their enthusiastic Braai chatter. Yet none are doing anything meaningful to combat the warming they are certain they are causing.

Perhaps that is the very essence of a demagogue, do as I say, not as I do - rather like the hero for said revolution, that goliath galloping halfwhit - Al Gore.
Absolutely not true, it is not about agreeing or disagreeing with the demagogues, the politicians claim blatant falsehoods and intentionally lie with a straight face to the public without any evidence to back their talk, these lies have been clearly pointed out time and time and again, it is not a "different" opinion, it is pure and blatant Lying, they simply thumbsuck it, Or skew the actual data Or cherry pick by paying some scientists many it a times not even specialising in the correct field to leave out facts conveniently, that will prove them instantly wrong, eventually they all get caught out, Everytime, then either contradict what they have said in the past (blatantly and stupidly so, thinking no one would actually remember) And/Or simply say they never said what they have said, Or continue to try and lie, this lunacy is beyond what can be described as a Circus !

The Science speaks for itself, it is not an "interpretation" it is those not specializing in their respective fields, or those being sponsored by deceiving Oil sponsored politicians that lie, cherry pick, deceive and manipulate the science that lives in their own denial of reality and have a very structured and common goal to blatantly try and deceive for their own greedy selfish gains.

And From what you have posted in the past it certainly shows that you are against the science and believe that human induced climate change is not real.
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Re: Global warming

Unread post by snoopy » Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:02 am

Earth is a living planet, it has a liquid core, its a ageing system that goes through stages, and so does our only star the sun, which in part sustains life here.

Its logical that through those stages the planet will change, even Africa is slowly but surely splitting apart along the East African Rift. But its a slow process...a few mm per year. Whether we will be accommodated or be able to survive within the next life stage of Earth, is dependent on how adaptable we are to the coming changes.

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/04/05/afri ... index.html

I basically believe its all about earth's life stages. :wink:
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