Vehicle Registration problem need help

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waterkoppie
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Vehicle Registration problem need help

Unread post by waterkoppie » Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:14 pm

Good day everyone,

A good friend told me about this wonderful community and he told me i could possibly find an answer here, it is non aviation related, although me and my friend every now and then fly his old Gyrocopter so i am a keen aviation enthusiast.

My problem is:

In September 2018 i purchased a bakkie from someone, just as i was about to register the vehicle after purchasing the vehicle i found out it had numerous problems i had to fix costing me over 35k, to me that is a lot, so much so i had no money left for the roadworthy and ownership transfer.

It set me back real bad i cannot pay for the transfer/ownership until i have the money for the ownership now which will be end of February. The person i bought it from is threatening to "scratch" the ownership (i assume he means scrap it ) ?
Is there anything i can do ?

I have since found out that i could get the vehicle de-registered
And someone told me is should Just go take the vehicle off his name.

Now from what i heard it's free to de-register the vehicle but is it really ? I have never been to the licensing department without having to pay anything.

And if it is de-registered, what problems will i face when i have the money to register the vehicle in my name ? Can i use the old vehicle certification form with the previous owner on it as proof of who the vehicle belonged to before the de-registration ?
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Re: Vehicle Registration problem need help

Unread post by bosvark » Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:15 pm

He can submit a form advising the licensing authority to remove the vehicle from his name. You then have limited time (two weeks or so I thnk) to get a road worthy and register in your name pr face penalties.

If he scraps it, I think you will have a real problem. will send your query to a person who does these things.
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Re: Vehicle Registration problem need help

Unread post by waterkoppie » Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:59 pm

Thank you

Someone told me he can simply de-register his name and i don't have to do the roadworthy until the vehicle is going to be actually used on the road ? I still need to fix a few things on it and get the money required before i can take it for roadworthy.
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Re: Vehicle Registration problem need help

Unread post by Splat » Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:29 pm

Both parties need to complete and sign the change of ownership form (Yellow one).
Easier for the original owner to hand it in, last time I did it it was R100 i think. Take ID and proof of address with.
Traffic Dept does the change of ownership and issues the original certificate in the new owners name if all fines up to date.
No roadworthy with the COO form = no license issued. Come back with the roadworthy and the original certificate and they issue the license.

Disclaimer - I did this last about 3 years ago. :D
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Re: Vehicle Registration problem need help

Unread post by bosvark » Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:40 pm

......"- The vehicle can only be de-registered (scrapped) by the current registered owner. To de-register the vehicle the current owner will have to be in possession of the original Registration Certificate of the vehicle. When a vehicle is de-registered and then registered again by a new owner, the vehicle will have to first go for police clearance, the vehicle will also then be registered as a Code 3 (built-up vehicle).

- The only option is to do a change of ownership, to remove the vehicle from the current owner's name,but this can also only be done by the current owner, after that is done the Enatis system will show who the new owner is, this is then the person who still needs to complete the registration process.
After the change of ownership,there is a grace period of 21 days for the new owner to register the vehicle, if you take longer than 21 days you will have to pay late registration penalties.


- My suggestion is that the new owner must set up an agreement with the current owner that he/she will register the vehicle end of Feb. when the funds are available, and send proof of registration to the previous owner"..
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Re: Vehicle Registration problem need help

Unread post by rare bird » Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:15 pm

as Splat says "Both parties need to complete and sign the change of ownership form (Yellow one).
Easier for the original owner to hand it in, last time I did it it was R100 i think. Take ID and proof of address with.
Traffic Dept does the change of ownership and issues the original certificate in the new owners name if all fines up to date.
No roadworthy with the COO form = no license issued. Come back with the roadworthy and the original certificate and they issue the license."

is the vehicle still on the road?
have any fines been incurred since purchased?
do you have a deed of sale or an invoice?
is it financed? (ie ownership still in Wesbank or MFC etc name?)
what is stated ? eg sold as scrap? or sold as a vehicle?

If the ouke does fill in the scrapping forms, you can take legal action (unless it was sold as scrap), and it is much more PT as Bosvark said to get it back on the road.
If you paid him the full amount, and you are not picking up fines in his name, and he is prepared to be patient and sign off the paperwork when you are ready, that is the easiest, but if you have it on the road and he is getting fines sent to him, I can understand why he would get it off his name. Scrapping it is the easiest way. The only other way I know of is to "export" it, which would again leave you with a problem.
you can register the vehicle in your name and take an affidavit along to say it is standing on blocks / not used on a public road etc if you don't have a roadworthy.
(you will get your ownership certificate, but not the licence disk)
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Re: Vehicle Registration problem need help

Unread post by waterkoppie » Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:26 am

Thank you all for the information, i have all the transfer of ownership papers but am battling to get the cash to register it, i am trying to make a plan now, however the papers was signed in September last year, and i had 21 days from that moment to get it registered if i understand correctly ? Does anyone know what the penalty fees could possibly be ?
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Re: Vehicle Registration problem need help

Unread post by rare bird » Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:46 am

rather just get the papers re-signed and leave the date open so you can date it on the day you take them in
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Re: Vehicle Registration problem need help

Unread post by Deanw » Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:52 am

rare bird wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:46 am
rather just get the papers re-signed and leave the date open so you can date it on the day you take them in
As a seller, no ways would I agree to that.
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Re: Vehicle Registration problem need help

Unread post by rare bird » Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:14 am

yes, it does depend on trust or lack thereof. If it is a friend or family member, one might re-negotiate the deal and re-sign. if it is some nobody off the street, then more difficult.
if the vehicle is re-sold on again, it becomes even more convoluted. No wonder many of the dodgy 2nd hand car dealers got a name for dishonest paperwork - if they really did it by the book they would never get any paperwork through, because there is no provision made for different scenarios - eg what if the guy has just bought the car, and literally falls over dead before he got to the licensing office?
so unless some human intelligence is used and not just some clerk ticking boxes and pushing a button on a computerised form where their authority is so limited they have to call their supervisor every time they fart, then these sort of administrative processes will stall or not be effective. (and yes, I hear you about corruption! - that is why systems should be cleverly designed (not just patches / fixes coded in each time there is a problem !) and why people should come to someone like Dean to get advice while writing the system - instead of later on, trying to figure out / trace what happened!)
Last edited by rare bird on Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Vehicle Registration problem need help

Unread post by coline » Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:25 am

Your obligation as the new owner of the vehicle is to transfer ownership (registration) into your name (within 21 day I think).
Yes there are costs attached to this. If the vehicle is not road worthy for any reason, you still need to do this although they will not issue you a licence disc without proof of roadworthy.

The previous owner also has a duty to notify the authorities of the change of ownership and if he submits the form removing it from his name, you are still liable for all fees from date of sale.

If the vehicle is still officially registered in the previous owners name, he is fully entitled to protect himself by scrapping (removing from the ENATIS system) the said vehicle.

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Re: Vehicle Registration problem need help

Unread post by happyskipper » Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:48 pm

Deanw wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:52 am
rare bird wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:46 am
rather just get the papers re-signed and leave the date open so you can date it on the day you take them in
As a seller, no ways would I agree to that.
Agreed, DeanW.
I sold a perfectly roadworthy car to a "friend" ten years ago (or so).
Completed all the forms, and went to the Licensing Dept to have it taken off my name.
He never did his side - and many years later sold the car as scrap.... now I am getting fines and demands for payment for outstanding fees from the licensing dept..... ??
I have just ignored all these, as I am living in Mozambique, and don't have any other vehicles in my name (I did try and sort this out, by taking my "friend" to the Licensing dept - but they didn't know what to do about it - hence my total lack of interest)
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Re: Vehicle Registration problem need help

Unread post by waterkoppie » Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:23 pm

Thank you all, getting hold of this person is tough as he travels a lot, away from home months on end,
if only i could know what they would charge me for the outstanding time since september, i can't find out as i cannot use the car to go there as i need to still fix the alternator the battery is dead flat, and i'm only starting my new job end of the month i don't have airtime.

Should anyone by chance pass by the licensing dept. please can you perhaps ask on my behalf, if not it's ok i understand, thank you so much for the help so far.

I can only get a roadworthy for the license disk in 4 months time. but i just need to register it to get this scrap threat off my back.
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Re: Vehicle Registration problem need help

Unread post by thelsa » Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:40 am

Sign the documents yourself as if you were the seller. The license authority does not have a specimen signature of the seller. When push comes to shove . . .
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Re: Vehicle Registration problem need help

Unread post by Jack Welles » Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:06 am

thelsa wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:40 am
Sign the documents yourself as if you were the seller. The license authority does not have a specimen signature of the seller. When push comes to shove . . .
Committing fraud is a serious criminal offence. Would think twice before following this advice. If things go pear-shaped for any reason 8-[
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